Jamie Cartee - BAD SELLER

James Cartee aka "Jamie Cartee" aka "cantilxcotton" - BAD SELLER

We paid this man for five Eastern Box Turtles. He told us they were healthy, long term captives in his care. They arrived in horrible condition, all malnourished and showing signs of Vitamin A deficiency. One turtle literally could not move and died within several weeks. Three had eye infections. Two turtles required emergency Veterinary Care, diagnoses were: "chronic nutritional deficiencies, bacterial upper and lower respiratory infection due to immune compromise, Cuterebra infestation, conjunctivitis, Hypovitaminosis A. One Vet pulled 14 maggots out of the turtle's neck...a record! (Even the Vet was disgusted with this whole scene). None of the turtles will be healthy enough to endure hibernation this winter because of their malnutrition.

James Cartee claims, "ONE MONTH HEALTH GUARANTEE (I have never had one back yet!)". He has avoided us and not paid one cent in compensation. (Our Vet bills alone are over $250).

We three families feel an ethical responsibility to share our experience with the reptile community. Photo of one turtle attached.
Feel free to e-mail for specifics (junglejohn@tds.net).

The Battaglia family
The Mackesey family
The Kircher family
(Madison, Wisconsin)

Mr. Battaglia
Could you post your email exchange with headers as well as copies of the vet reports?
It is not that I disbelieve you since Mr. Cartee has already admitted a screw up in another thread but it would help us to know exactly what was said and verify why the turtles were in the shape they were in.

Here are copies of the Vet bills (e-mail correspondence to follow in separate post). Each Vet visit, and turtle death, were within one month of receiving turtles (Turtles were received 7/9/08, Female #1 died 8/7/08):

Male #1 Vet bill:




Male #2 Vet bill:

Sorry to hear about this. Where did he ship the five box turtles from?

Best

Just out of curiosity, why was the vet told Sammy came from a rescue group? I had assumed Mr. Cartee offered them for sale, from a private person/home business.

Did he portray himself as a rescue, or ???


Not a major matter of contention since he has pretty much already admitted he sent you poorly cared for turtles in the other thread, just something that confused me.

I understand your concern, Jessica. There are three families involved with this transaction, with the children being the main intended recipients of the turtles. We have being trying to put a positive spin on the whole deal and we told the children that we had rescued these animals and they likely were in a very bad home before we got them. With both vet visits, we told the vet that these were rescued box turtles, and the vet agreed we should treat them as "wild caught" given their health status.

Here are some facts about this transaction:
I was promised healthy, CAPTIVE, not wild caught, EBTs by Jamie Cartee.
I was given a ONE MONTH HEALTH gaurentee.
I received 5 sick EBTs, from NEGLECTFUL HUSBANDRY (chronic issue).
Within one month, one is dead and two require emergency Vet Care.
Jamie Cartee did agree to send replacements...WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT REPLACEMENTS!!!
We have a rough winter ahead of us with these malnurished animals, if you know anything about EBTs, you know how tricky it is to get them through the winter. We very likely have Vet visits ahead of us this winter for these animals. That means lots more money spent on these animals (which we are willing to do).
I have asked Jamie Cartee for refund on the dead turtle, and he agreed, however, has not reimbursed me any money. He won't even provide me with his address or call me despite numerous requests on my part.
I have asked for reimbursement on the Vet bills, but he hasn't done this.

Read the e-mails between Jamie Cartee and me to confirm the above facts, there are two series, the first for the initial deal, the second series on what has happened since then (they are in backwards order, you have to read from the line upwards to understand).

First series below_____________________________________________ _____

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Jamie Cartee <cantilxcotton1@gmail.com> wrote:

Shipping is $60. It would actually be about 69 dollars from me to you for 1030AM delivery. but considering you are buying several I don't mind covering the rest. All animals have been in my care for 6 months or better. Technically well over a year, but a few have been put in my outdoor habitats by children around the neighborhood. I am very anal about my animals, hence the ONE MONTH HEALTH GUARANTEE. Let me know what you would like to do, and just to add, I have a several females and males that are ones I'm am selling off due to divorce, their prices will be higher, but their color is the best you will find for the price. Just incase you may want to get you a couple or one High End one later on. Cause ALL my customers come back......LOL. I do anything and everything I can to keep repeat customers.

So grand total with shipping will be $310

Let me know,
Thanks
Jamie




On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:27 PM, John B <junglejohn@tds.net> wrote:

I'm not worried about appearance, just functional health. As long as the shell infractions don't interfere with function or physiologic health, I am interested in this deal. I hear you saying that these are not freshly caught or harvested, but have been with you for a while, correct? My zip code is 53717...let me know your quote.
Thanks,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Cartee
To: John B
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: Eastern Box turtles wanted


I have a group I can put together of ones that have various shell infractions. Some have some pretty decent color.

The group would be $250 plus shipping. I need your zip code for shipping quote. This purchase will include 3.2 Eastern Boxies, a Live Arrival Guarantee, and a One Month Health Guarantee for each animal.

PayPal is our prefered method of payment.

Thanks
Jamie



On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 7:59 AM, John B <junglejohn@tds.net> wrote:

Hey Jamie,
Just regular. The main thing is I don't want recently wild caught or harvested animals. Prefer long term captives or rescue animals needing adoption. If you are a breeder and have several animals that just didn't turn out very nice looking, I would be most interested in them. Call me if you have something for me and we can discuss.
Thanks,
John

***START HERE AND READ UPWARD***______________________________

You can either send them back and get a full refund. Send the dead ones and a refund for those. Or as soon as I have some more I can send you 3 or 4 new ones.




On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:26 PM, John B <junglejohn@tds.net> wrote:

Jamie,
There is no way I would ship the remaining, malnurished, sick turtles to you. I would be happy to ship the dead turtle back to you, but you abused these animals and there is no way I would put them back in your hands. Both vets who examined these turtles diagnosed, "malnutrition, vitamin A deficiency"... To anyone that knows anything about box turtles knows that these conditions don't arise overnight, but are a result of improper, negligent husbandry.

I would like to mail you the Vet bills, and if you want, the shell of the dead turtle. That alone covers the money I sent to you to inferit this mess. So please forward me your address so I can finish this matter. I expect a reimbursement of the Vet bills and replacement cost of the dead turtle. If anything, you should have paid ME to inherit these infected, malnurished animals. There is only one among them that MIGHT be able to enter brumation this Fall.

In regard to attitude. I think you should send the whole string of e-mails to any neutral party and to examine who is being professional, and who is not. I have done nothing but given you very accurate feedback on what you sent me. If this upsets you, your reaction makes sense, because the situation is very upsetting. And by attacking me you are making it worse (name calling... and you are calling me childish?). Re-read your last e-mail to get a clue on this.

Jamey, I sent you good money. You promised healthy turtles and then send completely malnurished, infected animals, one of which is already dead and another is on the way. You don't answer my e-mails for several weeks, even though I have solid evidence you have been online during that time. You are wondering why we are upset???

Everyone makes mistakes, but you are not taking a responsible correction for the wrongs that you have done. In my book, you sitll have chance to do the right thing. So I urge you to do that, and settle this matter.
Please send a fax number or address so I can mail you the copies of the Vet bills. If you want to the dead turtle shell, you can have that too. I fully expect a full refund and nothing less.
John


attached: photos of male box turtle after vet visit, with diagnosis of cuterebra infestation and malnutrition, and record breaking number of maggots removed from neck lesion.


----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Cartee
To: John B
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Female Box turtle died today


In order to get a full refund you need to ship me all the turtles back. And I do not appreciate your attitude. I have kept in touch with you and tried fixing this by offering options. I know it's a pain dealing with this, but you are being a dick to me about. And I don't take to kindly to threats. And you have made plenty without provocation from me. I haven't said no to you once, and you still act the same. So grow up, and try to speak to me like an adult. Let me know when you can ship them back.




On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 4:58 PM, John B <junglejohn@tds.net> wrote:

Jamey,
We had to take another of the turtles you sent to the Vet emergently last night as it was so lethargic it couldn't move. The vet diagnosed Cuterebra infestation ("botfly" or maggots), conjunctivitis, and hypovitaminosis A. We paid $134 for the emergency vet bill. She removed 14 maggot larvae from his neck...said it was the worst case she had seen. She noted the turtle was malnurished and wouldn't likely make it through hibernation. She gave him a 50/50 chance of surviving. Looks like we are going to spend the entire winter trying to keep these turtles alive.

I am still stunned with the nightmare you placed in my (our) lap...and to think I paid you good money for this! I expect nothing less than a full refund of every penny I paid to you. I expect it within a week (I paid you immediately once we had a deal, so I expect to be treated the same). I need your address because I would like to send you copies of these vet bills and also because the other families that are involved with this whole mess would like to write you a letter.

I expect a prompt response to this e-mail or a phone call.
John Battaglia
(608) 332-7994

---- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Cartee
To: John B.
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Female Box turtle died today


I will send you a refund as soon as I have the available funds.




On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 8:48 PM, John B. <junglejohn@tds.net> wrote:

As I predicted, the female died today. Looking at these pictures tells the tale of just how malnurished this turtle was.

****START HERE AND READ UPWARD***______________________________

Originally Posted by Sloop John B

I understand your concern, Jessica. There are three families involved with this transaction, with the children being the main intended recipients of the turtles. We have being trying to put a positive spin on the whole deal and we told the children that we had rescued these animals and they likely were in a very bad home before we got them. With both vet visits, we told the vet that these were rescued box turtles, and the vet agreed we should treat them as "wild caught" given their health status.

Thanks for clearing it up. Like I said, it didn't really matter since he isn't exactly denying. I was just wondering. Plus, any way you slice it, I wouldn't say you were wrong to consider these turtles rescued from their previous circumstances.

i just can't believe how poorly this has worked out for you John, not only did you have to pay for sick turtles, you also have to pay for the vet bills and the time in order to make them better. what a nightmare, i for one will never do business with Mr. Cartee.

That is a shame, given that I recently found (and released) one caught on my property that appeared in perfect health. It had a perfect smooth shell, strong limbs bright eyes and this apparently is a WC animal.