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Old 06-25-2004, 09:59 AM   #1
Najakaouthia
Angry This may be Long but It must be said...

First off I would like to say that I no longer keep Hot Snakes. I have a good reason for this and I will soon get to that.

This is what I would like to spend some time running my mouth about.

As with the last post on this forum this too is a post about the Neglect of the Reptile for a small gain of the almighty dollar.
First off I started keeping Venomous Reptiles when I was 18 yrs. old when I thought I was untouchable and when I had NO Idea that there was a actual threat to my life or to the life of others around me. From the first time I looked into the eyes of a Venomous Snake It took my breath away and made me almost Lust for it. Like a Bad addiction to Heroin I could not pull myself away from the stare of the snake. I always said "If It cant Kill you, It just aint worth having" But as I said those words I never let them sink in and I never realized just how Stupid I sounded when I said this.
I am going to get to the neglect but first I would like to tell you about my experience with Venomous to make you think alittle about Just how safe this Passion is.
I started out the easy way much like most people do. I found someone who was Stupid enough to sell a Hot snake to a 18 year old Kid with with moron thought in my mind driving my passion. I didnt know nothing about this animal and Deep down inside did not imagine a little 3'long snake could Take my life. I just thought it was cool to have a "Pet" Northern Pacific Rattlesnake and I bought it. Within the first year my collection had greatly enlarged from One Rattlesnake to well over 50 Venomous Reptiles (Everything from the Spunky Little Pygmy Rattlers to the True Breathtaker of the Hot World the Gaboon Vipers and EVERYTHING in between) Within that first year I had read very little about these animals and was keeping them becouse they where "Cool"
Within the first year I got my first Close call and it started to change me. I was done cleaning my 4'+ Gaboons Cage and I decided to do what I had done many times before withought problems. I reached in the cage to Pet this animal on the back. At this point I never Realized a Gaboon could do a Backflip in order to sink his fangs into the hand on his back. This was and is the Fastest Strike I have seen to date and I still wonder why God decided to spare me. I felt the 1.5" fangs of this beast hit the back of my hand before I could even think about pulling away. I Never Dreamed of this before. My Life was saved for the first time with a Hot Snake.
After the years had passed I decided to Move up I guess to the Faster, Hotter and Crazier Cobras. My Favorite was and is the Naja kaouthia if you cannot tell by my forum name Before I knew it I fell for ALL Cobras and I had a pretty nice collection of well over 50 snakes all Cobras Everything from Monocled's to Kings. In the forums I had become fairly well known for my advice as well as My Giant Collection of Very Nice Hand Picked Cobras. People started asking my advice. I had to study to get that advice and while looking for all this info I started to Gain a True Respect for these animals and I started to get the point that Not only do they have the potential to Take your Life They wouldnt care if they did.
My second (Could have been) Close call was a Cobra that got out in my home. This snake was a "Venomoid" Banded Egyptian Cobra about 6'long. My wife caught this one and got it back to its home before I got home. "She knew it was Venomoid" But, When the Money overrules the Moral of so Many. Who would you trust?
I had the mindset that I would rather spend money on a new snake then to buy a cage. The Majority of my animals where kept in Rubbermaid containers "NOT SMART" but this lets you know I am not the only one like me.
3rd. VERY CLOSE CALL... I had a Green Mojave Rattler with a head about as wide a 3 of your fingers placed together. I was in a rush one day and the family and I where all getting ready to leave the house when My dad ran in the bedroom to get a shirt out of the closet. After a long time of silence I here his voice calling my name very lightly from the Bedroom. when I walk in there he is frozen in my bedroom with a Big Bad Green Mojave Rattlesnake sitting on the floor about 6 inches away from his Right Foot. This was one of the meanest snakes I had ever owned but Thank the Lord he was very used to people walking by him all day do to the fact he was in a 55 on the floor right in front of the bedroom door. We had removed his hidebox the night before for cleaning and I guess I wanted to find it so he got out and for some reason my fathers life was saved that day.
4th Close call was a 4'+ Prob. closer to 5' Monocled Cobra that I had Just gotten about a week before. I was cleaning the cages like always and when I opened the ""RUBBERMAID""" This snake came Flying out at me and before I could respond I had a REALLY MAD kaouthia with full intention of Killing me flying out of this Wal-Mart snake cage and hitting me square in the chest full force. I was upstairs and had nowhere to go but down. Its funny looking back and wondering what my 300Ib. frame looked like as I jump down a flight of stairs. I believe this is the one that made me a believer. Shortly after this I started downsizing my Venomous collection and this snake was the first to go.
My 4th close call was after I started downsizing and while I was still trying to hold on. I had a Bushmaster (L.m.muta) set up in a natural cage. I was used to him staying in a hidespot on the Right side of the cage where it was nice and cool. so I figured he was there as I reached in the cage to get his water bowl I had to reach over one of his hide spots that he NEVER laid in. right as I grabbed the water bowl I felt something "Nudge" the palm of my hand. Reflex took over and before I knew it I was all the way across the room and watching my Pride and Joy Bushmaster with his head stuck up and looking around right there where I was Stupid enough to place my hand without thinking. You would not believe the thoughts that run through your head when a Bushmaster Nudges his nose against the palm of your hand.
I ALMOST had to change my pants on this one and needless to say this was the last and Final close call I was willing to take.
I could prob. go on and on with little Close calls from a large array of Venomous Snakes but If you look at all my close calls they could have all been prevented with Knowledge on my part as well as on the sellers part. I am not the only person who looked at a new snake before looking at a new cage. I am not the only person who made these Stupid Mistakes. I am amazed at the lack of Knowledge in the Venomous Reptile World and it is funny that the more I learned about them the more I realized the Ignorance of my thinking.
I am one of the few prob. that have this many close calls with no Bites. "I am pretty Fast for a Fat guy I guess" I have too much to lose in my life at this point. I have a 3yr. old and a 12week old both girls that love me. I have a Wife that many people Dream of, Meaning she puts up with all my Crazy flaws and supports my love of Tattooing and Reptiles. As I got older and more knowledgeable I started to wonder what life would be like for me if one of Loved Reptiles got out one night and took the life of one of my Children or my wife? What would they do without a father if I got hit? These are questions I could not give a response to so I sold off my entire collection Not becouse I dont Love them but, Becouse I know that This life that we live is a True gift from God. You are not only given a life to live but, you are given a life that you are able to choose the way you live. The Lord gives you a mind and gives you the right to choose your own path but, with this he gives you the ability to suffer when you make the wrong choice.
I guess what I am saying is Venomous Reptiles are Awsome animals. The moment you lay eyes on one you become captured by the stare. I have yet to find anything in this life that is as Breathtaking as a Large 5'+ Fat Gaboon laid out like a living Rug. or a 13'+ King Cobra as it stares back at you and you can feel it thinking as it looks at you. These animals will captivate you and your wonder becomes a Passion your passion becomes overwhelming and your Stupidity Kills you.
I would be happy if I could cover my house with cages Full of Bushmasters, Cobras, Mambas, Gaboons, Ect. Ect. Ect. But I have settled for the animals that I loved as a child and I am now working with Bullsnakes, Boas, ATB's, and Retics.
My Only hope is that the newcommers to Venomous and some of the veterans will take a long look at this post and realize that Venomous Reptiles do have to be bred by someone do to the rapid loss of habitat, But, These snakes are More dangerous than people give them credit for and should be left to people who have the knowledge and Money to keep them safe and secure.
There is nothing in the world that compares to a Venomous Reptile but, without responsibility from both the buyer and the seller we will not be able to enjoy these animals much longer before the lawmakers who already think we have all lost our minds "For good Reason" turn the law around and take these unique creatures away from us.
I know all of you can look back at the first time you got your breath taken away when you looked at that creature for the first time. I would like to keep them around in a responsible way so our children can have that same feeling someday. There are alot of people that decided to devote a lifetime to Hots once they gazed upon that first one and they are doing an amazing job. But, there are alot of people that decided it would be cool to have a Hot snake and these people need to get out of the hobby.
I have been to alot of houses of people keeping Venomous Reptiles in the same fashion as myself if not worse and I know I am not the Only one with Stories to tell. I have been out of Hots for about a year now and just now telling my story. I feel that I am fortunate to be here. I feel my life was saved on a number of VERY Close calls. I only hope that all those people out there buying Hots off the Net. with no way to get Antivenin and with no knowledge of the requirments of these animals and no secure cages to keep these animals in will read this and think twice about the position you are putting not only yourself in but also the Danger you are putting others in your house in.
I hope the dealers that read this will realize the Great Responsibility they have to protect this passion that we all share. I hope you will ask yourself how many Dollar signs are you willing to put on a human life? Would you sell to your 18yr. old Nephew or Brother/Sister? Do you want to continue doing what you love? If you want to then I am asking you to Protect what you love and be responsible about who you deal with. Think about how easy it would be for lawmakers to take away your business. Hell you know they already want to do it all they want is for you to give them the right reason.
The Keeping of Venomous Reptiles is NOT to be taken lightly. Are you willing to Die to be "Cool"? Are you willing to take the life of one of your friends or family members in order to keep one of these animals?

To all the Responsible keepers. I hope you will not take this post as offensive. I am 100% for the keeping of Venomous Reptiles if they are kept by people who are willing to Give 100% in order to care for them. I am however 100% against the keeping of Venomous for use as Statis boosters for people who are not able to or not willing to Provide a Safe escape proof life for these animals. I am also 100% against the selling of Venomous Reptiles by the people who dont seem to care about the long term effects of the money they make at them moment.

If I am able to change just one mind or save one life I will sleep better with that in mind.

Anyone who has the urge to flame me for this post all you are doing is letting everyone know how much truth there is to my post. I welcome your flamming for this reason. If you flame me you might as well know you have taken my hand and are now helping me take Venomous Reptiles out of the hands of others like you.

Sorry it is so long but I think I make a good point.
Thank you for takeing the time to read it.
Justin Monroe
For the Responsible keeping of Venomous Reptiles
 
Old 06-25-2004, 10:49 AM   #2
Double "D" Reptiles
Wisdom prevails

Justin,
It looks to me as if you have gained wisdom over time and your statements are well thought out and presented. It is also commendable that you state, without reservation, that responsible keeping and all that it entails is still quite acceptable in you mind.

My wife and I don't keep HOTS for some of the very reasons you wrote about. We still hope to one day be able to keep them, but time and finances will tell if we are ever able to do so.

I found myself remembering about a burm incident when reading about your encounter with the gaboon. I had no idea that an 8' burmese python could do the same thing...luckily I was missed and strongly suspect that they're still quite a bit slower than the gaboons.

Enjoy the snakes you're keeping now and share that enthusiasm and the wisdom you will continue to gain with your young girls during the ensueing years as they grow. Glad to hear you're still with us to pass your experiences along.

David
 
Old 06-25-2004, 12:20 PM   #3
Najakaouthia
I appreciate your reply.....More

The people such as yourself happen to be the people that are the main reason I am so upset with the Hot World.
Let me explain this comment.
I have a True Respect for you becouse you are willing to wait in order to keep yourself, Others around you as well as the Venomous World as a whole Safe and secure by making sure you have everything needed before going out and buying a snake.
People like you are the Responsible ones I talk about and I cannot tell you how much I Respect you for this choice.
I guess I will never understand how money overpowers the morals of so many people. Looking back I am Very lucky to be able to sit here and write this. I have a True Passion for these animals and I would like to see them in Responsible Collections for many years to come. I may get back into Hots someday but, I will make sure I am 100% Ready for them before I buy them.
Looking back it is amazing how the mind thinks. I am talking of the "It will never happen to me" on the buyers end and the "If I dont sell it to them and make the Money someone else will" on the seller end. I can sit here and Name off names for 30min. strait just of people that I know that have Hots for all the wrong Reasons. I am only able to name a few that keep them for the Right reason. People that deal in Venomous Reptiles need to take a good look around and see what is destin to happen if they do not start thinking with there Brain and not there wallet.

I wish you Luck in your Venomous experiance
I can only hope that someday the only people keeping Hots are the people who are willing to do it only for the love of the animal. I have lots of memories with the snakes I had the honor to spend time with and it brought tears to my eyes as I wrote the original post. I cannot tell you how much I miss my snakes but, I was not ready for them at the time and I hope that at least a few people will read this post and realize that they are in the same position I was in and they will decide to wait untill they are more able to care for these animals before they are unable to make that decision.

One more thing I noticed you are from Oklahoma? I was Born and raised in Blanchard Oklahoma if you happen to know where that is?
Thank you for your post
Justin Monroe
 
Old 06-25-2004, 12:36 PM   #4
Darin Chappell
Justin,

I too have refrained from keeping hots of any kind, mostly because of my responsibilities to my family. But, since you mentioned retics, let me also say that I do not keep large boids for the same reason. It would make no difference to me that a child was killed by constriction rather than by envenomation, so I keep only those animals that cannot do serious harm to a child at all.

My six year old boy loves to hold "his" cornsnake, and that is an experience that you simply cannot replace as a father. You think watching that king cobra stare at you as you felt it thinking about you was cool??? Wait until you see your own child begin to develop a love for the same hobby you have cherished for so long. Now THAT'S cool!!!
 
Old 06-27-2004, 09:41 PM   #5
Mustangrde1
Very Nice Post and one that deserves to be read by any person thinking of getting in to hots. Thank for it.
 
Old 06-27-2004, 10:05 PM   #6
Najakaouthia
I Looked at your website.....

I can clearly see that you are right there with me on what I am trying to say. I just want to say Thank you for being a Responsible and Informative figure in this Hobby.
We Need more like you.
Thank you for your reply to my post as well.
Justin Monroe
 
Old 11-01-2005, 06:44 PM   #7
missmymark
Thank you for your story and words of wisodm.....You are terrific for posting how you feel. I would never own these awsome creatures, I am new to snakes in general....got a ball pyth about a yr ago and now branchin into the smaller pet snakes (corns). I could not imagine owning a creature that is so dangerous (Yet so beautiful)...heck I used to not think twice when I saw a snake killed on the road now I find myself cringing and feeling bad for the poor animal....I almost wrecked the other day just avoiding one as it crossed my country road....All snakes are so misunderstood which may or maynot be good for the well being of some snakes (people tend to avoid them but then again they also kill them for just the same reasons so maybe not). Sheesh Now I'm rambling but I hope I got my feelings across. Thanks again for sharing your life with venomous snakes
 
Old 11-01-2005, 07:48 PM   #8
jsrocket
I am glad you wised up in your "old age". Keeping hot herps is a HUGE responsibility. Sounds like you took that responsibility way too lightly in your early days.

You didn't know Gaboon Vipers were capable of backflip strikes?
You reached into a Bushmaster's cage without knowing FOR SURE where he was?
You kept a cobra in a rubbermaid, and opened it blind?

Dude, you are seriously lucky to be alive. I'm not getting on your case; I'm glad you posted your story. Hopefully others can benefit from it, and I'm sure that was your intention.

Moral of the story:

If you're thinking of hot keeping, EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFOREHAND.
Practice on agressive non-hots. Learn about safe caging and handling techniques. Learn as much as you can about each specific species you intend to keep. Never cut corners, no matter how much of a hurry you're in. And the list goes on.

Having said that, I'm glad you're OK, and we didn't have to read about you on the news. Hopefully, by you being a big enough man (pun intended) to post some of these experiences, others will not make the same mistakes. Peace
 
Old 11-02-2005, 12:30 PM   #9
jsrocket
And as far as dealers screening their customers, I agree 100%. Unfortunately, the way things are, if an inexperienced person wants a rattlesnake, he can find someone willing to sell him one. At the other extreme, some would like to outlaw private ownership entirely. There is no "happy medium" for these folks. Kind of like the gun control debate.

So, if we don't want the government sticking it's nose in our business, two things must happen:

1. Buyers must be made aware of the issues involved in keeping hots. Kind of falls under the heading of "Public Education".

2. Sellers need to screen customers a little more carefully before selling. An experienced keeper should be able to tell if a person knows what they're talking about after a 5 or 10 minute interview.

If things don't move in that direction, I can guarantee you the laws will cotinue to get tighter and more restrictive.
 
Old 11-02-2005, 01:43 PM   #10
Chris@TSE
just.... wow....

anyone stupid enough to keep a hot in a rubbermaid deserves what is coming to them. there is no excuse for stupidity or ignoring readily available information.

wow.......

I firmly believe anyone found to keep hots as you described should be arrested, fined, and jailed for a considerable amount of time and prohibited from keeping any animal, venomous or not, goldfish or python, ever again.

your post is a proverbial "WHAT NOT TO DO" guide or a "WHY VENOMOUS REPTILES SHOULD BE OUTLAWED UNLESS FOR SCIENTIFIC OR MEDICAL RESEARCH" declaration........

wow..................
 

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