Beware Evan Stahl from Stahl Reptiles!

Originally Posted by pparrish

Good points Kyle and Dan bring up. Personally, after receiving payment I'll call/text/e-mail customers weekly if the weather isn't cooperating on either end, just to keep them in the loop and assure them that I have not forgot about them and that that the animals will be shipped ASAP. In this case it sounds like the buyer was attempting to do all the contacting. They paid money ($800) for product that wasn't delivered in a week, in two weeks, or even in a month. Honestly, I would have become a bit concerned myself.
Again, my opinion, it's all about Customer Service. Even if a person only called/e-mailed you with a question and didn't spend a dime....if they were satisified with you they'll point others in your direction.
No matter the reason, if payment has been received and product hasn't been delivered, or even packaged for shipment, if the buyer asks for a refund it's only better for your business overall to give the refund promptly.
A last thought....if I produce and sell 100...200...300 Balls every year, it shouldn't be any problem to promptly refund $800. Evan should definitely keep separate accounts if he can't cover all he brings in if he ever needed to. Just smart business.

I not only spoke to her on a pile of occasions but when she suggested that I was lying about the forecast I directed her to go to weather.com to see what the forecast was as I was not magicaly creating the weather and dont control the weather channels site. I just went through my mail and counted a total of 21 emails that I sent her in the last 6 weeks. Does that sound like enough to you?

I think you guys are confused on the timeline. payment was made 2-24-13, today is 4-12-13, so the total elapsed time since the animals were paid for is between 6 and 7 weeks. This was not over a period of months. So do you still think that weather related delays in shipping were unreasonable for two weeks? that is what she said. the total time we even talked about shipping was just over a month. That is not that long for February to March in Michigan, sorry, the weather was terrible. As other Michigan natives have posted (thanks).

once the dispute with paypal ended all the money would of been released to you.the fact that you spent the money and now dont have it to pay her back is the problem. that money should never have been touched unless those animals arrived alive in the customers hands.your personal finance should not play a role in the timeline of refunding your customer.
In my personal opinion if the animals were not shipped and the buyer wants to back out im more then fine with that. rather them get what they want then not be happy with the product I provided.In the case of the refund fee I would ask that they would cover that.
when she disputed the charge from paypal if you would of said to paypal ill return the money this would of never been a problem.

Originally Posted by mikepanzarella

once the dispute with paypal ended all the money would of been released to you.the fact that you spent the money and now dont have it to pay her back is the problem. that money should never have been touched unless those animals arrived alive in the customers hands.your personal finance should not play a role in the timeline of refunding your customer.
In my personal opinion if the animals were not shipped and the buyer wants to back out im more then fine with that. rather them get what they want then not be happy with the product I provided.In the case of the refund fee I would ask that they would cover that.
when she disputed the charge from paypal if you would of said to paypal ill return the money this would of never been a problem.

It is very easy to judge somebody else and type the perfect thing to do in hindsite, when it is not actually happening to you. I am sorry for not being perfect. Nobody ever overdraws their account, goes over the limit on their credit card, pays a bill late, etc., etc., things happen in the real world, you can oversimplify it to make yourself look better and somebody else look worse. She went to paypal and filed claims without talking to me, they took the cash out without talking to me, my bills posted to the account as they do every month, the funds were released, the bills got paid. So now she will get paid as soon as I have enough cash in the account to cover it. It may not be ideal but SHE DOES NOT DESERVE A REFUND AT ALL!!! I did nothing to make her think that I would do anything but wait for reasonable weather, which is above 32 degrees overnight in both cities. That would have happened two weeks ago if she had not played games. It would have been less than a month. Is that unreasonable??? It is Michigan in February and March!!! She has been nothing but insulting and immature wanting the snakes immediately regardless of anything else. She was impatient from the first day. Now there is nothing left to talk about, I have repeatedly promised a refund in a few days for the full amount, as I have from the start. So you can keep rehashing the past telling us all how perfect you are and how flawed we are, but it will have no impact on anything as this is done, over, dead issue.

I wanted to buy a snake off of Evan in January. On my end I decided to add onto another order. It was nothing against him or his product. I was in the middle of moving so things were kinda crazy for me at the time.
Evan was upfront that shipping would be WEEKS away. I would not hesitate to initiate another purchase in the future------------

Im far from perfect I make a ton of mistakes im still learning
I dont see why she would not deserve a refund she has no product.
but like you said theres nothing left to talk about you dont have the money yet to refund her so untill then I guess we just wait for you

Originally Posted by evansnakes

It is very easy to judge somebody else and type the perfect thing to do in hindsite, when it is not actually happening to you. I am sorry for not being perfect. Nobody ever overdraws their account, goes over the limit on their credit card, pays a bill late, etc., etc., things happen in the real world, you can oversimplify it to make yourself look better and somebody else look worse. She went to paypal and filed claims without talking to me, they took the cash out without talking to me, my bills posted to the account as they do every month, the funds were released, the bills got paid. So now she will get paid as soon as I have enough cash in the account to cover it. It may not be ideal but SHE DOES NOT DESERVE A REFUND AT ALL!!! I did nothing to make her think that I would do anything but wait for reasonable weather, which is above 32 degrees overnight in both cities. That would have happened two weeks ago if she had not played games. It would have been less than a month. Is that unreasonable??? It is Michigan in February and March!!! She has been nothing but insulting and immature wanting the snakes immediately regardless of anything else. She was impatient from the first day. Now there is nothing left to talk about, I have repeatedly promised a refund in a few days for the full amount, as I have from the start. So you can keep rehashing the past telling us all how perfect you are and how flawed we are, but it will have no impact on anything as this is done, over, dead issue.

Uh yes, actually she does deserve a refund. You are selling the snakes to other people, and she did not receive anything for the $800 she sent you. Yes, I realize that shipping delays happen. I can agree that she was being impatient and even unreasonable. The fact remains that YOU have HER money and she has nothing to show for it.

Nobody is perfect, but I find it hard to believe that you didn't have the money to pay your bills without her $800. If you are really the kind of irresponsible person that lives hand to mouth with no savings for times like this, then that's just as bad.

I would never send money to a seller that spends my money on ANYTHING before I receive the product. I don't care if you had to spend it on hospital bills, or electricity, or food, or gas for your car. It's my money and it remains my money until I have received the product you are selling me.

Here is where I am stuck:

Evan still has the snakes that are paid for. His TOS clearly states he does not refund for buyers remorse.

Sierra paid for the snakes, so they are technically hers at this point. However, because she could not get them as fast as she wanted due to weather, she doesn't want them anymore and just wants her money back.

Evan didn't fail to produce the snakes or oversell them or have those snakes die or fall ill in his care, so he hasn't broken any of his terms. The snakes are still there, still sold to Sierra.


Why is it Evans responsibility to now refund her $ because she can't/won't wait for weather clearance? Is there a reason other than him actually trying to work with Sierra by agreeing to refund her?

This weather stuff happens with gecko purchases all the time. I am still waiting on 13 cresteds to ship in from the Great Lakes region and I bought them all before Christmas.

Originally Posted by evansnakes

It is very easy to judge somebody else and type the perfect thing to do in hindsite, when it is not actually happening to you. I am sorry for not being perfect. Nobody ever overdraws their account, goes over the limit on their credit card, pays a bill late, etc., etc., things happen in the real world, you can oversimplify it to make yourself look better and somebody else look worse. She went to paypal and filed claims without talking to me, they took the cash out without talking to me, my bills posted to the account as they do every month, the funds were released, the bills got paid. So now she will get paid as soon as I have enough cash in the account to cover it. It may not be ideal but SHE DOES NOT DESERVE A REFUND AT ALL!!! I did nothing to make her think that I would do anything but wait for reasonable weather, which is above 32 degrees overnight in both cities. That would have happened two weeks ago if she had not played games. It would have been less than a month. Is that unreasonable??? It is Michigan in February and March!!! She has been nothing but insulting and immature wanting the snakes immediately regardless of anything else. She was impatient from the first day. Now there is nothing left to talk about, I have repeatedly promised a refund in a few days for the full amount, as I have from the start. So you can keep rehashing the past telling us all how perfect you are and how flawed we are, but it will have no impact on anything as this is done, over, dead issue.

What ?? She doesnt deserve a refund ? Why ? If she has not received her snakes or products,she is entitled to a refund ! Just because she went after you with pay-pal,was a pain does not mean you get to keep her hard earned $

I also agree with Mike and practice this myself. People should not spend the money they get for a snake,or whatever until that person says everything is ok with what they bought. Now you dont have the money thats rightfully hers.

Originally Posted by Magic

Here is where I am stuck:

Evan still has the snakes that are paid for. His TOS clearly states he does not refund for buyers remorse.

Sierra paid for the snakes, so they are technically hers at this point. However, because she could not get them as fast as she wanted due to weather, she doesn't want them anymore and just wants her money back.

Evan didn't fail to produce the snakes or oversell them or have those snakes die or fall ill in his care, so he hasn't broken any of his terms. The snakes are still there, still sold to Sierra.


Why is it Evans responsibility to now refund her $ because she can't/won't wait for weather clearance? Is there a reason other than him actually trying to work with Sierra by agreeing to refund her?

This weather stuff happens with gecko purchases all the time. I am still waiting on 13 cresteds to ship in from the Great Lakes region and I bought them all before Christmas.

The last email I sent him I stated I either wanted the snakes or my money. I understand weather happens but when there's a handful of days that would have worked but still wasn't shipped ontop of the seller being extremely rude there's a problem. His response to my last email requesting my animals or money was responded to with I would not get tYhe animals I would be refunded whenever he resells them, which is not right seeing how I already paid in full and he HAS my money.