Giant questions / musings ...

both of mine are regular giants. not supers and they are some of my most docile geckos

one giant bit me , a female and alot of tail-waving (funniest thing to see ) but she was very new here then . i have a total of 8 giants now 2 males . and pretty much the same sweet and curious disposition in each of them now . "monster" was up to 96 g. @9 months went down to 88 now , since he is/has been breeding . im sure he is still growing and MAY be a super . now my APTOR male is 90 @9 or 10 mo`s , he put on at least 30 grams since he arrived ,and im pretty sure he will get bigger .

I'm just talking out loud here, maybe the geckos' personalities really have nothing to do with whether they are Giants or not. My most docile gecko, King, is so nice and calm......... he's not even a giant......... but he does weigh over 110 grams in the off season

King will sit on my shoulder while I do homework, or if I'm working around the house. Maybe he's so docile because give him so much attention.

Matt

there are puppy-dog-tame Leos in every size . i have a few juvis that were calm as can be ,since they were hand-fed as much as possible when they were little . hard not to have a favorite gecko to spoil having quite a few . also think its hard to give them all enough attention .

Docile may not be so good when it comes to males and breeding ....

i agree, i have a very docile jungle albino male that is not agressive enough, or as persistant with females, if the female does not want to breed and she turnes around and bites him..he gives up(this is after they have been together after about an hour and he finally notices her...-_-) i have a tangerine male that wont give up until his work is done, lol and he's as agressive as they come..doesnt make me like the more docile male any less though..infact..he's my favorite out of any of them

but..lets keep this thread on topic...

yea but some males are downright brutal . which is not the greatest thing to me anyways . mine are as gentle as gentle can get (not very) during breeding , and still get the job done . just dont seem quite as aggressive . of course it could just be the individual gecko and not because he is a giant . but who knows

I could easily accept the "separate subspecies theory" if the giant trait turned out to be polygenetic. But, like Christina, I tend to think that if it's a single gene be it co-dom or whatever it's more likely to be a result of a single mutation. I personally thought Moose looked a bit funny in the last issue of Reptiles, I've never seen that folded look he's got to his belly skin in any of my leos, even the really fat ones.

For those of you working with giants, do you agree that it's co-dom / single gene?

-Alice

Alice, if you have the magazine, is there any way you can possibly take a picture OF the picture of moose? i've always thought he looked a bit funny..the petstores here dont carry the magazine, only the ones upstate..

ok im going to throw some thoughts out and i will do my best to explain... i do not know all the spec for sub species of leopard geckos but i know allot about boas so let me put some thoughts up here and while i am talking of boas think of them as maybe leos
here goes
the largest range of boas are boa constrictor impetetor... they stretch from northern mexico.. just that side of the US border as far down as colombia maybe farther. the more norther BCI like the tarhumara boas are a true dwarf race of bci they grow slower, breed smaller (4 feet) and have smaller clutches. the neonates are much smaller than your south american bci babies and south american bccvery similar to the sonoran desert boas same northerm region of mexico. go down into central america and the mainland boas get larger but not huge (anywhere from 5 to 8 feet) island form though also bci in the central america area tend to be much smaller (5 feet) than their mainland counter parts. however these insular boas in captivity can attain lengths of for instance hog islands, 7 feet (clutches max at about 16)... once you get into south america the bci can attain lengths of ten feet (i have heard longer but i dont know, i have never seen a bci that large)... the south american bci can have HUGE clutches can be in the 20+ very easily.
ok now then we get to boa constrictor constrictor... which generally attain length MUCH longer than the BCI .... 10-12 feet is not uncommon and i believe one of the zoo's had a 15 foot surinam boa BCC... but they do not have the large size clutches of the south american bci. BCC and BCO (boa constrictor occidentalis) are the big boys of the boa constrictors. now while you have your norther mexico BCI which can breed at 4 feet and do not get too much larger than five feet and then you have the south american bci which grow relatively large and girthy and throw HUGE clutches and finally the BCC (peru,guyana and surinam) whom are the big boys yet have smaller clutches than the southern american bci (colombia)... now take all this into consideration........
all of these animals have adapted to there environments, of course... they breed and reproduce and thrive (in most areas) but in the case of boas they are not mutants but have adapted of the environment in which they live (some even adapting mimi populations which make them unique[physical appearance and even length], to other in the same group)
but one thing with all of these share is the same life span if kept in the correct environments... having all their needs met (captives) ect.the only difference in the long term survival(wild animals) is animals that prey on them and of course habitat distruction and human populations.... so lets say the giant is a sub specific leo... it adapted to its environment and i honestly doubt, if that the giant is from a sub specific line.. it is nothing more than a large leo that has the same life span as just about most of the other leos.
i hope this made sense
just some thoughts and ramblings