Danielle Fields...No Problems

Kara, very good post.

However taken as a whole, the buyer has shown himself to have poor ethics.
He responded to my asking him why he would take a risk buying from a jobber when there are many well known respected breeders available working with the animals he is interested in by saying something to the effect that everyone does it. That alone calls into question his judgement in my mind. Would you buy a purebred dog from a puppy mill? If you planned to breed dogs, would you buy your breeding stock from a petstore? Or would you go to a breeder, would you ensure you had unrelated bloodlines, and would you purchase from someone you knew would stand behind the health of the animals you purchased?

To insult us because we express outrage regarding his willingness to accept and embrace poor business ethics just furthers the view that he is indeed morally questionable.

Basiclly,when I started this thread,I was answering some questions that some other members had asked me.They wanted to know how my transaction went with Danielle.I posted it went good and I would buy from them again.If I had no problems with them,why would I think twice?I understand maybe some people got ripped off by them,but I have no first hand experience with them ripping me off.I believe people wake up one day and think they want to change,as I stated in a post on another thread.As for buying from jobbers.You would be surprised who buys from jobbers.As I stated,most people who sell reptiles don't have the space or time to produce all the animals they sell.I have several Green Tree Pythons,and some of the most well known breeders still buy from Bushmasters and sell thier chondros.It isn't a matter of who they get them from,more as long as they are getting me what I order.The animals I got are not high dollar animals,so I don't expect topnotch.More of a cutting my teeth on them without breaking the bank.I never intended on offending anyone,I just got backed into a corner with everyone slamming me for no reason.

I agree completely that if you know someone is unethical in their practices you should not support them. First of all you're playing a game of Russian roulette with your own money. Second you may be condoning practices that lead to the suffering and/or death of animals. Third you may be supporting the scamming of others. And yeah that's something I take so seriously because a lot of y'all get on here and post about buying like $3000 worth of stuff at once. I can never do that. $200 for a high end gecko is a huge thing for me. I can't afford to do anything about if I just lose it. In short, no pity party necessary, but I'm po. And so yes it's important that any purchase no matter how small be taken seriously.

To me the question here was does he support them in spite of being okay that they're scammers or does he not agree that they are scammers. Now, let me add here that either way I don't really agree because to me the preponderance of evidence on these people would certainly scare me even if there are a few positive experiences here and there. But it is a very different issue. If he agrees they scam and endanger animals and supports them, that's obviously something that calls ethics into question. But if he just thinks they don't do that anymore or never did, this could be very dumb. He's likely being dooped, but it's not really ethics.

Oh and someone asked a while back why I bothered even posting on this thread. Basically when I first started coming here BOI threads basically said good guy or bad guy and here's the evidence. Then there would be a few replies about yeah that happened to me too, or really I had an entirely different experience, or could you give more evidence. It all stayed more or less professional with out a lot of side tracks or name calling etc. And that was really helpful because I could tell this person is conducting themselves professionally and giving evidence. The evidence is against this guy who's also being a jerk, ok I can tell who to do business with.

I read a lot of threads even if I don't post because I keep up with who's trustworthy and whose not and lately it seems like a lot of the threads get insulting or off track by the end of the thread. That's not a judgement on anyone. There's nothing wrong with it. It just ends up being more like a discussion forum than a BOI. Again nothing wrong with that, I like discussion forums, but it does make it a lot less cut and dry as far as looking at one thread, not knowing the people, and still being able to see who's ethical and who's probably not. This is just the thread I chose to sorta make that point.

It's not that there's anything wrong with anyone posting or the way they're posting because it's not really as simple as right or wrong it's more a matter of effective or ineffective. For someone like me who's not a terribly active member and doesn't know any of you this thread would have said a lot more a lot more quickly if it had been the buyers positive post, followed by one or two posts stating negative experiences with posted evidence boi links etc, and then a brief recommendation to the buyer to do a lot more research on these people before he makes up his mind because he may be supporting someone who is unethical which , if you're aware of it, is unethical in itself. And then the end. That really says it all. Everything after that kinda muddies the waters and makes it a lot harder for someone like me who knows none of you to draw those hard clear lines between good guy and bad guy. I really never meant to get into a 15 page argument, just to make an observation, not that anyone is bad for what they posted (one person said I was insulting, which was never my intent) but that it can keep you from being able to make your point as effectively. That's all.

Originally Posted by HopingForBabies

As I stated,most people who sell reptiles don't have the space or time to produce all the animals they sell

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I'm curious....where did you get this information? Because perhaps many of the "large volume" dealers don't produce all of the animals they sell, but I would be willing to bet that there are a lot more "small-time" breeders than there are big guys, and the vast majority of small breeders I know are NOT jobbers. They take pride in producing and selling their own animals.

Kara, I understand and actually agree with most of your previous post. The only point that I really take any issue with is when you point out the "lack of effectiveness" in threads that tend to drag on like this. I find it very interesting what can be learned about folks in the process of these threads, often what seemed like a kinda bad guy in the beginning ends up showing even more of their true colors.....and then more info comes out....and then he REALLY looks like a bad guy in the end....or vice versa, I suppose. I also find it very interesting to see just how others handle themselves, and even though the thread may not be about them, often it can serve as a warning about them as well simply from their conduct, or information that may surface about THEM in the end.

Anyhoo.....I'm turning this into a discussion, sorry ....but my whole point is kind of what you stated, for YOU this might not be the most effective method, but for some others it may be. You're never gonna please everyone.

And back on topic.....Danielle Fields, aka Rainforest Reptiles has ripped off enough folks to be a permanent fixture on my "do not buy from" list. There's plenty of honest folks out there to buy from that pack their animals carefully enough to survive the shipping, and will actually send you the animal you pay for, to take a chance on sending your money to these scammers.

I believe people wake up one day and think they want to change,as I stated in a post on another thread.

Not too sure why you brought this up if you never acknowledged they are scammers. Either they are, or they aren't.

Ah Frank you'll just get him going again and who knows where that will lead.

Kara, you tell us we're not doing it right and how you view what someone said, meant or what they implied. Hey far be it from me to tell you what to think or write. You mention how things used to be here if I remember correctly about the time you joined here Rich instituted some new stricter rules and things were all nice and lovey dovey here for a while. Then he noticed that not much was getting done and as Cat mentioned we were not getting a good look at who the Scammers and Scammies were. So back we went to what some call the 'Wild West' though a bit milder than it was before you joined it is still a far cry from the Can't Everyone Get Along days. Also as Cat mentioned you can't please everyone no matter what you do, so we try to do the best that we can with what we have. We have outed some bad guys and helped some good guys and yeah some just get away but hey that's life.

David did what he did and said what he said you can try reading into it ETC ETC all you like but I think most of us here understood just what he meant and responded to him accordingly. If you feel the need to exercise your typing fingers then Disagree all you like but I'll tell you this, you wont change my View of David or Rainforest reptiles. Both are on the never do business with list.. Randy

hmmmm.lets see.You can't please everyone....I said that in....post 51.Thanks for agreeing with me.Maybe the only angry people are the ones that posted here.Maybe the happy people never posted!Well I am the first,and this post is here for good.Maybe you weren't pleased but I was.remember YOU CAN"T PLEASE EVERYONE!!!!

And you wonder why people referred to you using the words Idiot, Moron ETC ETC Yeah ya can't please everyone but baiting Buttwheats isn't all that hard... Randy

Well David as I see it you managed to do two things with your little thread here, both of them positive for honest buyers and sellers.
You managed to start another thread warning about Danielle Fields Geckos/Rainforest Reptiles and you let everyone know that you are willing to support and defend known liars and thieves. That puts you in the same general ethical class as the liars and thieves you support and defend.
If anyone ever runs a check on you on the BOI they will be directed to this thread by the search engine and will see for themselves the type of person you are.
I would imagine that most honest people will be very hesitant to do business with you. Given your low regard for ethical standards I would not trust you to deal honestly as a buyer or seller.
As Mr. Mackey said; “David (Tetreault) or Rainforest reptiles. Both are on the never do business with list.”

Thank you for bringing this to the communities attention.