Holland Inciti of Color Creations- BAD GUY - FaunaClassifieds
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Old 02-25-2006, 08:21 PM   #1
Crested Lady
Holland Inciti of Color Creations- BAD GUY

On February 3rd, I began inquiring about Holland's U. phantasticus that he was advertising on Kingsnake. After e-mailing back and forth for photos and various information, I decided to purchase a pair. He said he shipped Monday-Wednesday and had a live-arrival guarantee. Well, I didn't hear anything back from him for 2 days (certainly didn't receive notification of any impending shipments) and then I get an e-mail on Monday saying they had been shipped. (Without confirming that I would even be there.) Thankfully, I stay at home and was able to sign for the package (Feb 7th), but it was kind of shocking that he didn't ask if I'd be present, or inquire about the temperature in my area.

I sign for the box (I got several shipments that day) and as soon as I slit open the tape, I smelled death. The box was cold even though there was a heat pack in it, but other than that, it seemed to be packed okay. The female was DOA, the male was freezing cold, but alive. I settled him in, snapped pics of the female and immediately e-mailed him to let him know about the situation.

He apologized and said he'd get me a female ASAP. I said, "Thank You" and didn't hear anything back from him for weeks. (In the meantime, I purchased 2 female phantasticus from another person who knew how to ship.) Finally, on Feb 24th, I e-mailed him to ask for my money back. THEN he tells me that he doesn't give refunds, only credits. This being said AFTER I specifically asked him if he offered a live-arrival guarantee and checked his website.

WEBSITE GUARANTEE READS:

We accept COD, Money orders, Cashiers checks and Paypal. There is a 5% charge for Paypal.
We ship door to door either USPS or UPS
Live arrival is guaranteed when the Temperatures is in between 90 ninety degrees Fahrenheit to 50 fifty degrees Fahrenheit .
If you do not receive delivery of carriers first attempt, live arrival will not be guaranteed .
Any DOA Must be called in within 12 hours of delivery Pickup is available by appointment only


When he shipped the geckos, he never e-mailed to ask about the temperatures... or if I'd even be there!

Here are the e-mails we exchanged:

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:16:15 EST
Subject: Re: Message about: P.PHANTASTICUS AWESOME ANIMALS AVAILABLE GET THEM WHILE YO...
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
Here are some pics.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:26:15 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Message about: P.PHANTASTICUS AWESOME ANIMALS AVAILABLE GET THEM WHILE YO...
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

Who is the gold one (perched on the finger in the pic) currently paired up with? How long have they been in captivity and have they been treated for parasites? Thanks! (Also, do you offer a live-arrival guarantee?)

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:33:51 EST
Subject: Re: Message about: P.PHANTASTICUS AWESOME ANIMALS AVAILABLE GET THEM WHILE YO...
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I have had them for two weeks.They are currently not paired up.I do offer live arrival.
Thanks,
Holland
 
Old 02-25-2006, 08:35 PM   #2
Crested Lady
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:31:13 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Message about: P.PHANTASTICUS AWESOME ANIMALS AVAILABLE GET THEM WHILE YO...
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

I will definitely take the gold male and now just need to find him a lady. Are the two females you sent pics of the only ones you have? (I believe the other two pics you sent were of females, but I couldn't really see very well.) Your ad said that you have at least one who's gravid, one who isn't, and also some striped ones. I apologize for all the questions. I've always wanted a pair and these will be my first. :-)

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:46:23 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Forgot to add...
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Whoops! Forgot to add this to my last e-mail. If you want, while I'm picking out a lady for the gold male (shouldn't take long, I just want to know my options), I can put a deposit on him to make sure he's not sold before I choose his girlfriend. Lol. ;-)

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:08:54 EST
Subject: Re: Forgot to add...
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I have 3 females left a gravid female,and purpleish female with a stripe and a multi colored female that looks like the other one in the pic she is probably my favorite.Let me know.I can ship Monday thru Wednesday.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:59:47 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Forgot to add...
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

I like the female in photo 0698, but was wondering if you have individual photos of the available females? (I'm sorry for being so picky! Lol.) Did you want me to make a deposit on the male? (Just to make sure he doesn't get sold before I choose a female for him?)

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

Pepperquill1@aol.com wrote:
Hi,
I will hold him.I no longer have the that female.I can send the best one I have.I take paypal and COD.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 23:07:21 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Forgot to add...
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

What's your PayPal account so I can send the money? :-)

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:17:08 EST
Subject: Re: Forgot to add...
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
My paypal is the same as my email.
Thanks,
Holland

---(THIS IS WHEN I SEND HIM THE MONEY)---

Name:
HOLLY INCITTI
Email:
pepperquill1@aol.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Total Amount:
-$240.00 USD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:
Feb. 4, 2006
Time:
08:39:46 MST
Status:
Completed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Subject:
Payment for Phantasticus Pair
Note:
Hi Holland!

Let me know when you can (safely) ship!

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

--(I CLEARLY wrote "Safely" in the note sent with the PayPal payment)--

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:41:07 EST
Subject: Re: Payment for Phantasticus Pair
To: sales@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I can ship Monday thru wendesday.Let me know what day is best for you.I also need your full address.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:44:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Crested Lady - Sales" <sales@crestedlady.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Payment for Phantasticus Pair
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

Any day works for me. (I work from home.) My full address is:

Sarah Milroy
**********.
******, ** ******
(***) ***-**** or (***) ***-****

Is there any way to get a photo of the female before she's shipped? Also, how have you been keeping them? I don't want to change their environment more than needed and would like to keep them on the same schedule.

Thanks! :-)

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com


--(OKAY, now I didn't hear anything for 2 days then I got this e-mail that he shipped without confirmation that I would DEFINITELY be there. Even though I stay at home, it seems like it would make sense to let the person know when you are definitely going to ship)--

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:25:17 EST
Subject: Re: Payment for Phantasticus Pair
To: sales@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I shipped them today with a heat pack.They will arrive tomorrow by 3:00.
Thanks,
Holland
 
Old 02-25-2006, 08:42 PM   #3
Crested Lady
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:27:02 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

The geckos just arrived today and the female was DOA. I smelled her as soon as I opened the box. The male, thankfully, appears to be okay.

I currently have the female in the freezer and will send pictures ASAP.

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 15:43:49 EST
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I am very sorry to hear this.I can try to find you another female asap.How were the temps?I tried to ship as best I could.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:52:04 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

The temps were okay, I received other gecko shipments and everything was fine. The male seems to be settling in alright... he really likes his ficus tree.

I've attached pictures of the female. These were taken after she'd been in the freezer for a few hours.

If you could find another female I'd really appreciate it. I feel bad that Poe doesn't have a lady. Thanks!

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

--(Okay, a few weeks go by, in which I purchase 2 other U. phantasticus from another breeder. I send Holland this e-mail)--

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:32:48 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

Instead of another female, I've decided to just get a refund for the cost of a female. I purchased one from another breeder at a good price. ($150) Thanks!

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com


--(And I get THIS response)--


From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:59:39 EST
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I cant give refunds only credit on your next order.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:22:12 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Hi Holland,

When I asked if you had a live-arrival guarantee and you said you did, you did not mention anything about credits. I would appreciate it if you would refund the $150 I sent for the female. (Fair market value) Thank you.

~Sarah~
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:51:31 EST
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
I do offer live arrival guarantee.I do not give cash back and I do not know anyone who does.I can give you credit towards your next order like I do with every one else.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:24:52 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Holland,

The guarantee on your site reads as follows:

"We accept COD, Money orders, Cashiers checks and Paypal. There is a 5% charge for Paypal.
We ship door to door either USPS or UPS
Live arrival is guaranteed when the Temperatures is in between 90 ninety degrees Fahrenheit to 50 fifty degrees Fahrenheit .
If you do not receive delivery of carriers first attempt, live arrival will not be guaranteed .
Any DOA Must be called in within 12 hours of delivery Pickup is available by appointment only "

Nowhere does it say "credit only". In my six years in the industry, I have never run into a live-arrival guarantee that's credit only when it isn't clearly stated.

In my opinion, our entire transaction was conducted unprofessionally on your part. You never confirmed shipment of the animals, just sent an e-mail stating they had been shipped. Furthermore, if your guarantee was "credit only", it should be mentioned on your website, not after a transaction has gone wrong. I cannot in good conscience conduct business with you again or reccommend you to others. I do not want credit on another transaction with you. I would like my money returned in accordance with your live-arrival guarantee.

If you refuse to return my funds, I am serving you notice that I will be filing claims through both my credit card company and PayPal. Due to the fact that I have dealt with bad sellers before, I can speak from experience when I say that my funds be returned. I do not want to have to put you through the time and trouble of a fradulent seller investigation through my bank and PayPal. I would prefer that we resolve this amicably in accordance with your guarantee.

Furthermore, if you continue to conduct this transaction in the same manner you have up until this point, I will also be posting the details of this transaction on the Board of Inquiry at FaunaClassifieds.com.

Thank you very much for your time,

Sarah Milroy
Owner
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:32:29 EST
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
The website is not finished yet and info is still being added.I know very few people that give money back when something comes DOA.Nothing was done unprofessional on my part.They were shipped with a heat pack in an insulated box and got their next day.When you notify some one the animals have been shipped it means you email them and tell them they have been shipped...I cant think of any other way unless its with a tracking #.I took a look back on the weather on the week they were shipped.I don't remember what day it was so I included temps from the whole week, and every day the temp went below 50.This is from:
http://www.wunderground.com/history/...q_statename=NA a reputable websie.
Feb 6th:
Actual Average Record
Temperature
Mean Temperature 28 °F / -2 °C 33 °F / 0 °C
Max Temperature 47 °F / 8 °C 48 °F / 8 °C 68 °F / 20 °C (1930)
Min Temperature 9 °F / -12 °C 17 °F / -8 °C -23 °F / -30 °C (1989)

Feb 7th:
Actual Average Record
Temperature
Mean Temperature 33 °F / 0 °C 33 °F / 0 °C
Max Temperature 52 °F / 11 °C 49 °F / 9 °C 73 °F / 22 °C (1999)
Min Temperature 13 °F / -10 °C 17 °F / -8 °C -25 °F / -31 °C (1899)

Feb 8th;
Actual Average Record
Temperature
Mean Temperature 39 °F / 3 °C 33 °F / 0 °C
Max Temperature 62 °F / 16 °C 49 °F / 9 °C 76 °F / 24 °C (1954)
Min Temperature 16 °F / -8 °C 17 °F / -8 °C -24 °F / -31 °C (1933)

Feb 9th:
Actual Average Record
Temperature
Mean Temperature 43 °F / 6 °C 33 °F / 0 °C
Max Temperature 70 °F / 21 °C 49 °F / 9 °C 78 °F / 25 °C (1996)
Min Temperature 16 °F / -8 °C 17 °F / -8 °C -17 °F / -27 °C (1933)


I can offer you a satanic female at cost when I get some more.I do not rip anyone off and never have every issue I have had has been resolved or I have tried my best to resolve sometimes the people did not want to cooperate.Let me know what you want to do but my terms have been broken.
Thanks,
Holland

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:32:11 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Holland,

I had asked you to ship the geckos when it was safe. I didn't hear anything back from you for a few days, then all of a sudden I got an e-mail saying they had been shipped. You did not confirm that the weather was warm nor did you ask me to check the weather. It is the responsibility of the shipper to ship when conditions are safe. Not my fault you put your animals in danger. I did not tell you to ship that day, you simply shipped (also without asking if I would be available the next day, so the box could have sat on my porch for hours if I wasn't available) and now you are trying to escape responsibility for your lack of foresight.

When I am done composing this e-mail, I will be filing claims with PayPal and VISA. I am sorry you did not fulfill your obligation and thus solve this problem before it began. I also will be posting details of this transaction on the Board of Inquiry so that future customers can draw their own conclusions about your already dubious reputation. From this point on, please do not contact me, unless it is to refund my money. You can deal with PayPal and VISA, who will be contacting you presently about your unethical business practices.

Sincerely,
Sarah Milroy
Owner
www.crestedlady.com

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:04:31 EST
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
Its not my responcibility to know your temps or when I can ship.I sent you an email telling you I was going to ship dont tell me you didn't get it.It has been almost 20 days before you even asked for a refund I assumed you read the terms.My business practices are not unethical.I had two claims filed against me on fuana both were well over four years ago and I did not know about them untill the following year.The first claim was solved days after it had been posted and the other costomer still deals with me.You dont have a leg to stand on with this.You are just upset because the animal came doa and you want your money back.You can not change your mind from wanting a replacement and then wanting money.You have no case with paypal or Visa and I do not use Visa so thier is nothing they can do.
Have a nice day,
Holland

---------------------E-mails Finished------------------------
 
Old 02-25-2006, 08:51 PM   #4
Crested Lady
First, I find it amazing how it isn't the shipper's responsibility to find out what the temps are. They're the ones shipping the animals anyway.

Second, he shipped without confirming that I'd definitely be there.

Third, I didn't ask for a refund earlier since he was supposedly getting me a replacement "ASAP".

Fourth, of course I'd want my money back if the animal was DOA! I specifically ASKED if it was guaranteed before I even paid him.

Fifth, PayPal made a note on his account and my bank has already refunded my money... so they obviously believe that I had a case. This post is to warn people about this person's unethical business practices and complete and utter lack of professionalism.

To sum it up, DON'T BUY FROM THIS GUY!!!
 
Old 02-25-2006, 09:30 PM   #5
Rob @ RK Reptiles
Here is a link to another thread on this regarding Holland (Color Creations) and his customer service, shipping, and animals.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...olor+creations
 
Old 02-25-2006, 09:41 PM   #6
TylerStewart
This stuff doesn't really suprise me to hear about Holland. I may have missed it, but how did he ship? He sent some Jacksons chameleons to a friend/customer of mine in a used cricket box with the USPS (after saying he'd ship with a real carrier). There was an issue with the animal that was left unresolved, and I believe to this day is unresolved.

On the shipping, if it's me, I always take it upon myself to check their temperatures (without asking), and if I decide it's safe to ship, the responsibility is on me. If there's any question I don't ship, so basically it's either live arrival + 5 days or I'm not shipping, which is really the way it should be. To put in your terms that live arrival between 50-90 is pretty unrealistic, and makes it easy to use your TOS to back yourself up and dodge problems. It's not that hard to pack right with a little testing, and sometimes you just need 2 heat packs. It's rarely between 50-90 low to high anywhere at any given time besides maybe parts of Florida and So Cal.

There's other threads about him in the BOI archives that should have made it clear not to buy from him... At least you got your money back, so you can pretty much drop the fight.
 
Old 02-25-2006, 09:57 PM   #7
Suncoast Herpetological
Glad to hear you got your refund although the temp range issue does provide him with a viable loophole. I completely agree though that it is definitely the shipper's responsibility to know the temps at the buyers locale. I, myself, will not buy from someone who does not unconditionally guarantee live delivery as long as someone is there to receive the delivery. I offer that guarantee and expect it from others

My main issue is the 5% fee that is being charged for the use of PayPal. I am sure that Paypal would love to be alerted to this as it is expressly against their TOS to add a surcharge for use of their service
 
Old 02-25-2006, 11:44 PM   #8
Chameleon Company
I just came upon this thread,

And I emailed Holland. He dabbles in chameleons,as pointed out by Tyler. If I was still in the Airborne, I would tell Holland that his head is in his fourth point of contact. This particular line, which is echoed in other of his replies, is what had me miffed:

Quote:
I do offer live arrival guarantee.I do not give cash back and I do not know anyone who does.
The problem in this sentance seems to be that poor Holland needs to know more credible people. I have known quadraplegics that weren't as lame as that excuse. While you seem to have your money safely back, and thank God that PayPal has evolved into what it has, he needs to change his whole mindset about this. How old is this "reputable individual" (I do not want to spend $10 to say what I really think). Is he a Florida native, or hubris that relocated from up north? One more textbook example of being "penny-wise and pound-foolish". In more ways than one, there just is no excuse for the lack of communication, and then the nonsense. Let me post this before I make that $10 contribution to Rich's beer fund.
 
Old 02-26-2006, 12:15 AM   #9
Chameleon Company
Sara and others,
Holland responded to my email quickly, and we have a little exchange going. You have your money back via PayPal, and I am hoping to influence him towards some more successful customer strategies. I believe there are past threads about him that indicate some dissatisfaction, but don't really care about them. I hope that he recognizes some opportunities to improve from what can be learned here, and makes some changes. My earlier post was to provoke him a little bit, but as I said, I now credit him for responding to my side email promptly. Sara, I hope that the male is still improving. They are neat critters.
 
Old 02-26-2006, 01:36 AM   #10
Crested Lady
BlueBeastReptile- I got so many shipments that day and was running around trying to revive the male so I can't be positive what carrier service it was shipped with (though I think it was USPS). The box was insulated and did have a heat pack. Also, all my shipments arrived within minutes of each other, so there wasn't a carrier delay. (The box was cold, but it could be that the heat pack just didn't make it.)

Jim- The male is recovering well and loves his new (living) females. They really are fascinating little creatures... very odd-looking with funny behaviors.

Here's the latest e-mail after I let him know about this thread:

From: Pepperquill1@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:18:24 EST
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: admin@crestedlady.com

Hi,
That's fine.Maybe you should post all of the emails not just the ones you like.And I did notify you about the shipping.I do offer live arrival guarantee alot of guarantees differ from person to person I offer credit for the animals that came DOA.I am fair with all of my costomers and was fair with you.I offered you credit which you declined so I offered you a Phantasticus female at cost which you also declined.I checked the temps before I shipped and it was going to be under 50 for over two weeks (I can send you the reports).You knew the temps and shouldn't have bought the animals if you knew the temps would be under 50 for the next two weeks.I do take the blame for not having my website updated with the full guarantee but that does not make my terms invalid.Even if I did have the terms updated and gave money back I could not in this so I don't know what else you would expect me to do.
Thanks,
Holland
------------------------------------

The thing I don't get is that I DID post all the e-mails. I did NOT receive a notification about the shipment until AFTER the animals had already been shipped.

I do like how he openly admits that he checked the temps and KNEW that it would be under 50 degrees. (It's Colorado... in February.) I purchase animals in cold weather all the time and ask those who don't do "Winter Shipping" to ship when they consider it safe... as I did with Holland.

What blows my mind though is how he can say that while he didn't update his site with the "Full Guarantee"... it doesn't make his terms invalid.

My response?

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:01:47 -0800 (PST)
From: admin@crestedlady.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Phantasticus
To: Pepperquill1@aol.com

Every e-mail in this transaction, save the original inquiry from Kingsnake (don't have a copy of it) was posted. If you have a problem, post it on the BOI. Future e-mails will be blocked.

Sarah Milroy
Owner
www.crestedlady.com
---------------------------------------------------------

That's it for the e-mails... he's blocked.
 

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