Snakes at Sunset - Michael Barrera - Sick Animals - Terrible Condition

The mite in question isn't they typical snake or lizard mite Ophionyssus ssp but is a chigger (see https://www.k-state.edu/herplab/lizards/collared.html for a picture of a mass of them on a lizard) and can be very common on these lizards in the wild. (possibly Acomatacarus arizonensis or Euschoengastoides longitarsala as per Walters, Brianne L., et al. "Host and distribution lists of chiggers (Trombiculidae and Leeuwenhoekiidae), of North American wild vertebrates north of Mexico." (2011).).

The mite is a good indication that the animal in question was indeed field collected and this could be part of the reason it isn't doing well. You should contact a veterinarian for emergency supportive care and to check for other parasites that could be causing issues for the lizard.

some comments

Ed

The question is what is going to be done to resolve this matter !

For now it seems they are not going to post on hete(logged in earlier this morning). They are responding via their website messaging system. I will post those messages if a resolution isn't being made.

To update the situation it seems a resolution will be made. In talks Snakes at Sunset offered me two options to start. One was keeping the animal for a $40 refund(price of animal) or sending it back(at my expense...easily over $50) for a full $80 refund. I denied either option as I felt it was not right for me to pay shipping(either orginal or to send it back) when they were the ones who shipped an animal in unacceptable condition. After that they decided they would just refund me in full if it died or if it perked up nothing would done. Unfortunately today the animal did pass away so they have been provided pictures and I am just waiting on them to refund me the $80.

Originally Posted by MrTPlush

To update the situation it seems a resolution will be made. In talks Snakes at Sunset offered me two options to start. One was keeping the animal for a $40 refund(price of animal) or sending it back(at my expense...easily over $50) for a full $80 refund. I denied either option as I felt it was not right for me to pay shipping(either orginal or to send it back) when they were the ones who shipped an animal in unacceptable condition. After that they decided they would just refund me in full if it died or if it perked up nothing would done. Unfortunately today the animal did pass away so they have been provided pictures and I am just waiting on them to refund me the $80.

You had the animal for almost 7 days and knew it was sick when you got it. Let me guess... No trip to the vet? You want everyone to believe that Snakes at Sunset is disgusting yet you knowingly let an animal die while in you're possession. That is pretty disgusting.

I have bought from Snakes at Sunset and other similar online/retail shops and KNEW that when receiving WC animals that its up to me to immediately take them to the vet and start the quarantine process. Please correct me if I am wrong. The pics you provided do not look like a quarantine set up.

Originally Posted by dieselfan

You had the animal for almost 7 days and knew it was sick when you got it. Let me guess... No trip to the vet? You want everyone to believe that Snakes at Sunset is disgusting yet you knowingly let an animal die while in you're possession. That is pretty disgusting.

I have bought from Snakes at Sunset and other similar online/retail shops and KNEW that when receiving WC animals that its up to me to immediately take them to the vet and start the quarantine process. Please correct me if I am wrong. The pics you provided do not look like a quarantine set up.

I had the animal six days because Snakes at Sunset was posturing. When I was first concerned they told me it was likely due to the animal being cold and from shipment. So I waited as directed. When Monday(21st) rolled around I discovered the mites and mentioned how it still wasn't perking up. Snakes at Sunset said it looked dehydrated and after reading this thread questioned my hot spot temp.

I wanted the iguana to be returned back to them because they were so sure it was healthy. I was not happy with the animal I received and the fact it had impossible to miss mites on it(if one was examining it before shipping) showed they were careless before shipping the animal and very well could have missed other visual signs it was unhealthy. I wanted to get the animal back to them, but in no way was I going to be responsible for shipping on something that should have never been shipped in the first place.

My setup is perfectly fine and doesn't need to meet your specifications for a quarantine enclosure. Sand is a perfectly fine substrate for a new animal. It is easy to clean and easy to see consistency of the poop. It actually was very helpful in this situation as I knew how much it was moving around in its enclosure.

If you want to blame me for the animal dying you can go ahead and point the finger at Snakes at Sunset too.

Originally Posted by MrTPlush

So I waited as directed. When Monday(21st) rolled around I discovered the mites

Originally Posted by MrTPlush

I was not happy with the animal I received and the fact it had impossible to miss mites on it(if one was examining it before shipping) showed they were careless before shipping the animal and very well could have missed other visual signs it was unhealthy.

I'm not getting on you, I'm just asking- if you missed the mites, etc. isn't it possible that they did also?
And this is just me- no matter what anyone else says if a critter is pooping clear liquid it is time to at least call and consult a vet.

Originally Posted by Lucille

I'm not getting on you, I'm just asking- if you missed the mites, etc. isn't it possible that they did also?

The reason I did not see the mites originally is because when I opened the box the lizard was cold and I wanted to get him under a heat lamp ASAP. Which obviously in retrospect I should have given the iguana a quick glance over, but unfortunately I did not. I am not complaining that I had to disinfect and throw out the substrate because it is my fault it got put into the enclosure with the chiggers. However once I did inspect the lizard it was very noticable between the legs and Snakes at Sunset admittted they likely did not look over this iguana for chiggers before shipping. From talks it sounds like these iguanas just live with these chiggers on them and when it comes time to ship one out they remove them all.

Adding on I was very upfront with them that I didn't have much of any experience with lizards and that I have never gotten one shipped to me. They were very aware of my inexperience and I was going to go off the information they gave. I believe Snakes at Sunset was trying to downplay possible health issues too much early on and were really set on the iguana being 100% healthy. Even when they said they would refund me fully if it died they were going to attribute the death to stress...nothing else.

I also don't have experience with WC animals so I wasn't concerned early on when it seems I probably should have been. Someone with more experience could probably chime in, but it sounds like I should have been concerned with it's health from day one and not brushed it off as just being cold. Unfortunately a bit of a learning experience for me, but I don't think one should think Snakes at Sunset acted right in this situation. I don't think this animal was right to be shipped and I think they could have handled it better once I stated it wasn't doing well. If it was so obvious it needed a vet visit why was Snakes at Sunset telling me to bump up an already acceptable basking temp? Makes me believe they knew it needed a vet visit, but didn't want to tell me that.

Originally Posted by MrTPlush

Adding on I was very upfront with them that I didn't have much of any experience with lizards and that I have never gotten one shipped to me.

Originally Posted by MrTPlush

My setup is perfectly fine and doesn't need to meet your specifications for a quarantine enclosure. Sand is a perfectly fine substrate for a new animal. It is easy to clean and easy to see consistency of the poop. It actually was very helpful in this situation as I knew how much it was moving around in its enclosure.

For someone with no experience you seem quite definite about your own abilities when it comes to your enclosure.
This is the second recent thread where a buyer has said something about their inexperience and their expectation that this creates responsibilities for the seller as far as education. I'm certainly in favor of helpful sellers, but buyers can research as well.
Going forward, I think that sellers might consider having a page of links at the bottom of their TOS page that reference critter care for the types of critters they sell. It would be the work of an afternoon to create such a list. In the TOS the seller could invite buyers to read the info in the links and then ask specific questions afterward.

By the way, there is in fact controversy among expert keepers on the use of sand as a substrate.