Paid subscription plan?

It seems to me that the BOI should be free...if,when I first found out about it, I was told I had to spend 10 bucks to see a forum, I never would have signed up...
Isn't the BOI supposed to be a clearing area for people to air problems about bad dealers, etc???

I can certainly understand charging for the use of the bulk of the site, including the classifieds and such...perhaps people who are interested by the boi might then want to subscribe to see the rest?

I agree though, the difference between 8 g and 16g is substantial...

greg

Originally Posted by dwedeking

16,000 people seeing my ads vs 8,000 people seeing my ads is quite a difference.

Just another factor to throw into the choice between evils.

Personally, I think the issue with people logging in under new names is a minor issue when the big picture is looked at. These people that are at the forefront of everyone's thoughts for that week are soon gone. Does anyone remember Adam Block? Only the group that's been around for a while and just as a foot note.

Well actually Dan, you have been an advertiser here since the time when we only had 2,000 registered members. At that time, those numbers seemed sufficient to attract many of the advertisers here.

I guess it is a lot like considering the reptile shows that you do. Would you rather be at a show with 16,000 rubberneckers walking in the door, or one with 8,000 attendees who are serious about being there? Anyone who wouldn't spend $10 to be here is not likely to make a big dent in an advertiser's bottom line, I think.

Plus, such a fee would not block out everyone completely if they were just visiting guests. Just the ability to post in most of the forums listed in the business and classifieds sections. They could still VIEW those forums (as well as your ads) but just could not post in those forums. I really don't care about the credibility of the viewers, it's the ones providing input for other people to consider that is at issue.

Heck Dan, behind the scenes I get emails all of the time asking me to check so-and-so's IP address to see if they are someone else. How many active threads on the BOI right now have suspicious looking registered members making false statements to try to cloud the real picture? Anyone can do this at any time.

But if people would prefer to keep it completely free and to heck with the people pretending to be someone else, then that is OK with me too. I am presenting a possible solution here. Charging a $10 fee would hopefully solve some problems, not the least of which is the worry I have about what the heck I am going to do when traffic reaches the point where I have to go to multiple servers just to carry FaunaClassifieds alone. I already have two servers when I determined that hosting my own working sites along with the hosting I am offering other people for their sites is just not going to work. But it is obvious to me that I may have to have a server EXCLUSIVELY for FaunaClassifieds sometime in the near future. Possibly I may need two, one for the message board code, and another for the MySQL handler. This will eventually reach the point where it is more expensive then I am willing to commit to without having substantial commitments from the users of this site to cover it all.

I'm just laying my cards on the table for you all to look at and evaluate along with me. Certainly not everyone is going to like the reality of it, but that is the way it is, nonetheless. Heck, I am not even considering the TIME I put into all this, which believe me, is quite substantial. So much so that it is taking away from things I really need to be doing with my REAL business and not this freebie lark that I have embarked on. So something has to give somewhere. I can certainly leave things as they are here and put it on autopilot, which means you are all on your own. When the "server too busy" messages show up, tough. When the trolls run rampant, tough. If someone wants new features, tough. Someone forgot their password and can't logon, tough.

Not to mention that apparently some people here rather pissed off at me for even having this site have bombarded my email addresses with SPAM. Fortunately, the guards I have in place clear up most of them, but still, it's one more unnecessary aggravation I have to put up with to give you all this site.

Those are the choices, I am afraid. Read the cards and come to your own conclusions about what is needed. And please excuse me if I begin to get a glimmer of an attitude of "what is really in this for ME?" The pat on the back and a heartily proclaimed "Good Job, WebSlave!" isn't going to cut it forever.

Point taken...and it is a good one (or a series of good points)

I am just saying that when someone told me about fauna, and I typed in the address, if I was presented with a demand for 10 dollars, I probably would have never come in...
Perhaps there is some way to allow a temporary access, or a one time view or something?? I really am not computer literate, and I am sure that many of you are shaking your heads...just seems to me that you want to have more and more visitors, not less...but you certainly have to make some money at this also.
Now that I have been exposed to the board, I would certainly agree with a ten dollar annual fee, no problem...
greg

No Greg, the site would NOT be completely closed pending payment of an admission fee. New people coming to the site would see exactly what everyone is seeing right now. The fee would be imposed on those people wanting to POST messages within a group of forums, generally within the business areas of this site. The discussion forums would still be open to posting by all members, regardless of their paying that fee. But I will have to qualify this in stating that if I see a surge in messages posted within the discussion forums that are placed there that are not appropriate (such as BOI material) in order to get around the payment restriction, then I would have no other choice but to lock them down as well.

Yes, I would like this site to continue to grow, but we are reaching a point where some decisions need to be made to make this realistic. This site has been a LOT of work for me for a LONG time. I just don't think it is fair that I be expected to keep it up forever (with the increasing workload that more members brings) on my dime. Yeah with the sources of income that this site is bringing in, I may actually be operating in the black (if I take into consideration ALL of the expenses that have come out of my pocket over the last several years, might be much further down the road), but as an hourly wage for the time I spend on it, it REALLY sucks.

I don't know, maybe my age is showing. I'm just thinking more about what I really want to be doing with my time. It's been a long time since this was just FUN to do.

Gotcha...didn't understand about the regs regarding being able to post only as a paid member...sorry !

If I had viewed the boards, read the posts, I would certainly pony up the ten bucks to be able to interact...

Hey, I understand...you should be able to have fun too...


greg

Rich,

Actually, I target people new to the reptile hobby so all those views by newbies is exactly what I'm looking for. In shows I go for that same crowd, give me twice the people to get my flyers and cards in front of. I'm probably different than a lot of your advertisers so I definitely am not in a position to make any demands, and I'm not. As you stated I've been an advertiser here for a while. At first my purpose was soley as support for your actions here, but I've watched as this site has turned into a success for advertisers (both paid and on the classifieds). I feel there is a revenue stream following the traditional advertising venue (not the end-all of possible revenue streams but one of many).

My fear as an advertiser is that you'll lose the growth potential of new members if a $10 fee is imposed. Purely a business point of view. On a personal point of view I'll pay the $10 to watch Wes beat some dead horse into the ground only to have it picked up and beat to death again, just on enterainment value.

Personally as a friend, I've always felt you should take a step back and relax about the demands this site puts on you personally since your other business ventures are what is paying the rent (I believe, as I don't look at your books ). Let the site run a little slower, let it have a few less bells and whistles (and charge for those bells that you do put out there), stop allowing people to attach photos (saving bandwidth and pushing them towards the photo gallery where you can capture their revenue), set up a separate folder in your email program to handle fauna and only go in there when your in the mood to deal with the morons. Your mods do a good job of putting out immediate fires and anything that gets real bad can just be tossed into HELL.

Just advise and a point of view and in no way an "attack" at you or the work you've put in here, take it for what it's worth.

Have you considered running MySQL and the site(s) on different machines?

We have been doing some experimenting at work running some of our sites on a box with only Coldfusion (dynamic language sort of like PHP) and connecting to a second box running MSSQL for the database. Seems to be working and removing a lot of load overall as opposed to running Coldfusion and SQL on a box together....

Yeah, Dan, I do understand. But some things are just easier said then done. The reason I am asking about this instead of just going ahead and DOING it is because I want feedback. You can only ask for feedback if you are willing to get some that may not be what you want to hear. That's just the way it is. I certainly never expected everyone to say "Hell yeah! Just charge the money and let 'er rip!"

Will a lot of people stop coming to this site when if they find they have to pay in order to post in some of the forums? Maybe. But maybe it will also encourage them to post in those forums that are for free instead. Will people get pissed and leave if they find that they can't even READ the BOI without paying a fee? Probably some of them. This is one of the biggest "ifs" in this whole thinking process. What exactly are the restrictions I would place on the non-paying guests here. What is "fair" to do, yet give enough people incentive to ante up to get to the value of this site?

Heck, this site is having a huge spurt in growth right now, yet I just went through the advertiser list and deleted the accounts of 6 advertisers who have decided to not renew their banner ads. So apparently growth here and more members viewing their ads was not the target they were after. So what was? Beats me. But something they expected in return for their money was apparently not realized. In most cases, when I contact an advertiser that has dropped out, they never bother to even answer my emails. So yeah, enough of being treated like that, maybe I am beginning to get an attitude about all this. It appears that it is OK for everyone to look out for "number 1" except for me. I looked at the offering of banner ads on this site as a way for people and businesses to help support what I am doing here. Most people look at it as something completely different, apparently. It has nothing at all to do with helping THIS site, it is merely a method to help themselves get traffic to their site, and nothing more. The "number 1" thing again..... Certainly I am not putting you in this category, Dan, as you have been with me from the beginning. And there are certainly others who truly are trying to help out. But I have to be realistic about what is going on. Heck, how many members do you think would be posting on this site if I removed the capability for them to post links to their own sites within their signature area? Hell, I'm NOT blind! Nearly everyone is looking for a way to grab up at that next rung on the ladder. Personally, I really don't care. I am not running in any sort of competition, and even if someone set up a website and called it FaunaClassifiedsToo.com, I would accept their advertising here. More power to you. I just don't believe that getting ahead necessitates you stepping on the other guy's head to keep them down.

But as I said, this is all in merely the discussion stage, so no telling what, if anything I will really do. I have been thinking, "maybe with just another 2,000 registered members, this will fly" for quite a long time now. And no, I am not taking dissenting opinions as an attack. Well at least not those that are not accusing me of trying to ruin someone without backing up that claim with some facts.

Dean, yeah, the separation of code and db engine are definitely a possibility. But I talked to my programmer about it and he says that all of the sites that he is aware of that do that have glitches associated with that arrangement. It pretty much means having a full time server admin to keep watch on the system to keep it running smoothly. Sorry, but the way things look to me, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that this site will bring in the kind of money that would allow me to even consider that kind of expense. Not to mention that running two servers automatically doubles the cost of the server expense right from the starting line.

I'm looking down the road, and see lots of rocks. If this vehicle is going to get thrown off the road by those rocks, maybe I would just as soon get it over with sooner rather then later when I have thrown even more good money after bad at it. So as I stated before, in some ways I look at people here willing to pitch in $$ to help as a vote of confidence. If most people don't care one way or the other enough to help, then why am I doing this? Why should I care? Hell, if people get incensed at a small fee and go elsewhere, do they really think they won't face this again when the next site in line reaches this same point in growth? The resources needed to run a large popular site are not for free to anyone. This is a simple fact of life. And NO ONE is going to keep this up for free forever.

So no, I don't really have any idea what I am going to do. This is a classic "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" kind of scenario.

OK this may be going off on a bit of a tangent; but I think if the vendors will support the new auction wholeheartedly, this whole debate may become moot, if it can bring sufficient income. I think that if the people who are in the reptile business will start by donating items that serve to show off their biz, it will get the forum rolling, be good for them and good for Fauna.
But I see that if we can make it work, it can evolve into something that will support Fauna on a much larger level. And give Webslave time to enjoy what he has made.

I do not take Federal Income Tax until this summer but I want to scope out ways that business donations could be ( legally of course) partially written off as advertising costs to the companies donating the items. By the time I can help that way, I hope that the auction site will be doing well enough so I can have serious talks with large suppliers. The auction has to be solid in order to attract bigger business.
And, this is FUN for me, I LOVE tax and contracts.

What I need from everyone now is support as far as getting the forum established. Today, for instance, one terrific member put up a lil toad he has had for 8 months. That is what I am speaking of, people coming together here and going the extra mile to establish this forum while I work on learning computer stuff and more law so I can help even more. Surely everyone has a spare toad? Hmmm...maybe not. But you could clean out your garage and auction the candy dish Aunt Minnie gave you 5 years ago, lol.

Will we need fees also? Maybe. I think that would be fine while we are looking to other ways to defray costs. The fact is, Fauna is skyrocketing and so are the costs. I have no way to know yet just how much the Fauna Fund will bring in, I hope for it to grow into a substantial help. I will do my flat out best to make it go. (I got up at 4 this morning and sent emails to some reptile suppliers, inviting them to look in).

Now, y'all have to help too.
Go CATCH SOME TOADS AND LIST THEM ON THE FAUNA FUND!!!
Thank you

Good point Rich. I am one of the 3 full time admins at my company. I don't think about it from that perspective, I suppose. We haven't had any real problems, but what I consider normal during the course of a business day would kill some people.