Spider wobble and ethics

I have a two year old male Spider Ball Python with severe wobble. I got him from a breeder here on fauna as a hatchling and was told that they usually outgrow it. It was barely noticeable as a baby, worsened as he grew and seems to have reached a point where it is not getting any worse.

I hand fed him for just over a year. He was very willing to eat but his aim was terrible and he would hit his face on the tub. Through trial and error I have found a way to get him eating on his own without injury or stressing him. He eats better than any of my other BP's, sheds fine and is very even tempered. Other than the wobble, he is perfectly fine.

I will not breed him and will certainly not give him away to possibly be bred by anyone else. He would be a pet only. Should (God forbid) something happen to me, arrangements have been made for his long term care.

Although I would like to think he is fine, I feel that I may be being selfish by keeping him. I don't know for sure he is not suffering. I tell myself that he would not eat if he is suffering in any way but I just don't know for sure. He is unable to hold himself upright and his head does loops when he is active. I feel sorry for him and really don't want him to suffer.

I'd like to hear some opinions from other herpers. What would YOU do in this situation. (As a pet owner, not a breeder)

Thank you

If he were suffering he would not eat or breed. If wobble is severe than it's good not to breed him. Just enjoy him as a pet. He may even settle down more later.

Thanks Joe! I really appreciate your input

Is wobble in BP kind of like neuro-disorder in Jags?

Originally Posted by Payara

Is wobble in BP kind of like neuro-disorder in Jags?

I really could not honestly answer that since I have never owned a Jag and am unaware of any problems with them.

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml

Originally Posted by JColt

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml

Thank you sir!

Originally Posted by wyldwurm

I have a two year old male Spider Ball Python with severe wobble. I got him from a breeder here on fauna as a hatchling and was told that they usually outgrow it. It was barely noticeable as a baby, worsened as he grew and seems to have reached a point where it is not getting any worse.

I hand fed him for just over a year. He was very willing to eat but his aim was terrible and he would hit his face on the tub. Through trial and error I have found a way to get him eating on his own without injury or stressing him. He eats better than any of my other BP's, sheds fine and is very even tempered. Other than the wobble, he is perfectly fine.

I will not breed him and will certainly not give him away to possibly be bred by anyone else. He would be a pet only. Should (God forbid) something happen to me, arrangements have been made for his long term care.

Although I would like to think he is fine, I feel that I may be being selfish by keeping him. I don't know for sure he is not suffering. I tell myself that he would not eat if he is suffering in any way but I just don't know for sure. He is unable to hold himself upright and his head does loops when he is active. I feel sorry for him and really don't want him to suffer.

I'd like to hear some opinions from other herpers. What would YOU do in this situation. (As a pet owner, not a breeder)

Thank you

From reading the article Joe posted it seems very similar to neuro-disorder Jaguars get. From my understanding it's the signs are prominent in times of stress and most show some signs of it. Like the article said "Spiders which do not demonstrate any sign of the condition have been shown many times to produce offspring that do." so is the case in Jags.

I respect your decision Kim. At the same time if you enjoy the morph and enjoy breeding them I think you should. As Joe said

Originally Posted by JColt

If he were suffering he would not eat or breed.

.

Originally Posted by Payara

Thank you sir!


From reading the article Joe posted it seems very similar to neuro-disorder Jaguars get. From my understanding it's the signs are prominent in times of stress and most show some signs of it. Like the article said "Spiders which do not demonstrate any sign of the condition have been shown many times to produce offspring that do." so is the case in Jags.

I respect your decision Kim. At the same time if you enjoy the morph and enjoy breeding them I think you should. As Joe said .

I would never breed him. I personally believe breeding an animal with a known disorder to be highly unethical and damaging to the community we all love. I know other people don't feel that way and that's fine, just not how I do things
Since he feeds great and seems otherwise fine, I will keep him as a much loved pet. If he continues to get worse, I will reexamine my decision.

You both have been a big help. I really do appreciate it Thank you!

I have a bad wobbler spider myself. I keep her as a pet and to show what the wobble looks like to people considering getting spiders so they know what it looks like. She's also very small despite trying to feed her heavy. She will get fat, but not grow. So I have to sometimes limit her feeding so she doesn't get obese, which doesn't make her grow any either. But she's a sweet snake and never seems to show any pain or distress, she's just goofy.

The ONLY way I would ever breed her(assuming she ever got big enough which doesn't seem even remotely possible)is as an experiment to another severe wobbler strictly in conjunction with some of the reptile folks at UF for research. Since none of them have had time to do that sort of study yet, and she's not looking as if she'll ever get large enough either, I don't see that happening.

Otherwise, I wouldn't breed severe wobblers. I know some people do. And some hatch out normal looking non-wobblers and all. It's my personal choice.

But I don't think wobblers "suffer" unless they can't eat. I always make sure I put her food in the center of the bin to keep her from bonking her head on the walls too much. It doesn't seem to bother her when she does, but I always feel bad. She only eats pre-killed too, no live. It's hard for her to strike properly on a moving rat, so I pre-kill her prey.

Thank you Theresa!

I do have to limit his intake as well, otherwise he would eat himself into oblivion! I usually put him into a small tub, along with a fresh killed prey. He will push it to one side, bite it (not strike), coil and eat.
Come to think of it, he is rather small as well...I have a couple pastels a year younger and about the same size. Thanks for the great info!