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Lonely Hearts Club Forum Looking for someone with a common interest? Why not go where they hang out? Have fun, but not TOO much fun in here. ONLY members over 18 are welcome here.

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Old 05-31-2006, 04:04 PM   #51
A_Kendergirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griz
Let me add one brief comment to this. I do not want anyone here to think I am sitting back in my cushioned office chair and judging you. Truth be told, when I assess who I call friends and who I do not, there is a lot more to a decision then this one simple subject. I respect most all of you for various reasons, most of which is due to the input you have made on so many posts in years past.

I do not want anyone to walk away from this thread thinking that Griz, he's such a such and such. I believe pornography is wrong and that it ruins lives. Plain and simple. You guys obviously have other feelings towards this. What I want is for each of you to intellectually think through the pornography issue, study the statistics, and it is my hope that you will come away rather perplexed at how large of an issue it really is.

Shanti enjoys some porn in her life. So be it. But, it's the pathway that pornography leads us down and the millions of lives it has affected that I want you to be aware of. Do not stick your head in the sand or simply walk away from the thread because you feel like your points are not getting through. I am hearing your points but they are emotional points not logical one's.

Anyways, if nothing else, I hope this has led to some additional insights.

Griz
LOL Running myself into brick walls is an activity I avoid. I know there are people out there that hear and agree with my side, just as there are people that agree with you.

Nothing in my point of view of porn has changed in at least 10 years. I'm not going to suddenly change it one morning 6 months from now.

Sometimes the way you feel is more important than what logic and "fact" say. Had I followed logic, and not my heart, I likely never would have even dated my husband (long story there) - and that's not a decision I would take back for the world.

I, myself, am a rather complicated person...I can't even figure myself out sometimes...mostly because I don't always follow the logical path (but sometimes I do). I met and dated my husband online - but I caution other who are thinking of doing the same. I have only "been" with my husband, where as he and many of my friends have been around the block more times than they can count, and I don't think any less of them. I don't drink (not only because I'm currently pregnant) because it makes me sick (literally); when I was able to drink and not get sick I RARELY did it because I didn't like to feel "different"...but again I have no problems with anyone that does. I watch porn about as often as I drink, it's rare and I find enjoyment in it, but it's down right dull to see it all the time. I've never once smoked, or done any sort of drug - for very similar reasons that you have...but many people I know have done them in the past and they are still my friends (I tend not to hang out with those that are currently involved with either on a regular basis). In short, the reasons I do or don't do something are very personal choices (and rarely, if ever, because some study says it's bad), and I don't begrudge others that same choice.

We're not so different Griz, just our paths and reasons. Both are valid. It's just a bit insulting to say age and lack of knowledge have anything to do with how I feel. I'm sure that the way you feel is how you've felt for years, why would it be any different for me? Because I haven't been around as long? These choices I made for my life were done YEARS ago, so long ago I can't even recall when (and if) I ever felt differently. While a lot of people don't know who they are and run around lost for their teens and a lot of their twenties, I was never that person. I do see a disturbing trend in my views of teenagers...when the heck did they get so young and annoying? So in away I do know where you're coming from there.....doesn't mean I like it any better.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 04:13 PM   #52
ZX11
I never said I agree it is ok, nor did I agree it is the downfall of America.

The fact is Porn is out there, it is mainstream and all that choose to veiw aren't deviants, not all deviants veiw it.

It is a personal choice, one that I say is ok, if all involved say its ok.

This thread was started because two people in a relationship agree it is NOT ok, yet, one still does.

In this case, no it is not ok.

The wife, in this case, has no appreciation for this material , the husband does. Each has their own reason for their veiws { we all have for ours here }, but the bottom line is that porn was not permitted.

So, are we really here to debate porn and the industry that did NOT push its way into the home, or whether or not the husband is justified in bringing it into the home?

If, as agreed, it is not allowed, then there was no justification. Period. Violating the agreement is a violation of trust. I am not saying he is a bad guy, he just did the wrong thing.

Rapist, child molesters, murders and the like were all around long before any type of media, porn included. Every country has had their share of each and every country became what it is today despite of having these people. Just because it is mainstreamed today doesn't mean all of the countries are going to collasp and sink into the bowels of earth.

There are two paths for each of us. The rightous and the unrightous.

If we don't want our kids in the sex industry, the education is in our hands. The decision is in theirs.

Movie producers make two kinds of programs. They leave the choice in our hands.

It is not my call to tell folks what to watch or judge them by their choice. To each his own.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 04:32 PM   #53
Griz
Shanti, my age comment was not meant to be a negative. Most of us were 26 at some point and I can tell you that I am a far wiser man now then when I was 26. With age comes wisdom but you also get those darn gray hairs! However, that wisdom allows you to see things in a different light.

You guys choose not to stand up for or against pornography. Rather, you feel that if it's between consenting adults (so long as it's does not involve your own children) then it's ok.

I see the worlds problems as having too many people who are not willing to make a stand for wrong and right. With regards to pornography, I have drawn my line in the sand and will not cross that. I know first hand what it can and does do to men especially. I have witnessed friends who were driven to some very dark places due to the intoxicating flavors that pornography allures you with. People can make the comments that it does not affect their lives but they are fooling no one.

At some point, people have to stand for what is right and wrong in this world. I cannot stand complancency and I, for one, will stand for what I believe is right.

Griz
 
Old 05-31-2006, 04:32 PM   #54
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griz
Lucille, don't ever let it be said that I do not appreciate who you are. I do. While I will vehemently disagree with certain decisions, where minors are brought in, I do respect you and most of your decisions. Always have.

Griz
Thank you. However, and this is no criticism of you at all, I think you do not realize how studied and thought through some of those decisions are. To me, life is a bundle of competing rights, and I place minors in very high regard. Yet freedom of thought, and of speech, is also central not only to our American way of life but to the very foundation of the Christian ethic. Choice is central.
The courts, with some great minds pondering just these choices, have decided that access to children of internet use is incumbent by parents, and the ideas of whatever nature brought forthwith from the internet should not be reduced to the level of play in a sandbox because children exist.
I say that if you value the family, if you value freedom of thought, if you value your right to think, you must not yield these to legislated rules and must instead shoulder personal responsibility.
I took good care when my children were wee ones to carefully monitor what they saw and read. I found unfortunate surprises in my life; I walked in one day and saw what one of my sons was watching on cable, and he was older then, but I physically ripped the entire cable out of my home and it has not been back since.
I had an unfortunate experience with a church official sent to guard my family, so unfortunate it cannot be repeated here but the safety of myself and my family remained uncompromised because I would not permit his actions.
I think that parents must look to the safety of their children everywhere and not be lulled by the fact that a certain site, a certain official, a certain person is involved. Parents must be vigilant, always.
I have not watched more that an hour or two of TV a year for many years: America lets the TV babysit their children and I personally think that reading, interaction, and doing things together are more the way to go. There MUST be more parental responsibility than there is in some cases, now.
Griz, do not trivialize this responsibility with sleight of words, it is too important: there must be diversity of ideas, and choice; and there must be safety for children through parental involvement. Neither should be legislated away, Griz, we will give away our heritage as human beings should we give up either our ideas or our children.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 04:49 PM   #55
Griz
Understood, but Lucille, you ripped the cable box out of your house, why? To protect your children. That is exactly the reason why I do not have television in my house. It's the exact reason why we home school our children. They are too important to take lightly.

But, this site is a private institution and therefore it is a dictatorship by it's very definition. I do not view that as a negative thing either. However, with said dictatorship comes certain responsibilities. You and I both know that we cannot rely on all parents to do the right thing. So, when there is the opportunity to use your magic wand to ensure that a certain deviant posting is not seen, then I think it is your obligation to do just that.

Trust me Lucille, I do not for one moment believe that I can right all of the wrongs out there. But, there are opportunities in which I can make a difference and God forbid if I pass one by. You have already deleted one "under 18" posting on this particular thread alone thereby reinforcing the fact that children do view this forum. That is one reason why my words have been as strong as they are. My hope is that since the thread remained that therefore my words would too and that might just make a difference to the under 18 reader.

You and I both understand the magnitude of what lays in front of parents these days and there is no place for complacency. We should act when the need arises and I still feel that you failed in that responsibility. But, it was not my call to make, now was it?

I will not shelter my children from what reality is. After all, they will be living in it all too soon. However, when I know that the likelihood of parental involvement will be non-existent, I will react in a manner that will rid that problem of the opportunity to present itself. And that was my goal in that particular situation.

Griz
 
Old 05-31-2006, 04:58 PM   #56
Lucille
I think you have not read my post Griz. I will respond, at some future time, when the impact of what I have written has had time to be appreciated. I think there is a balance here, and you do not understand what I have written on the primacy of choice.
I ask that you wait to respond. These concepts are too important for sleight of words or for any heat of escalation. It is worth the time to wait, sometimes rereading and reflection will bring new facets forth that were not previously appreciated.
I too, will reread your posts.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 05:05 PM   #57
Griz
Lucille, I knew your stance even before the thread in question arose. I have long studied (for lack of a better word) your postings and I believe I know how your thought processes work. I have always admired that. Trust me, your posting above was not lost on me.

Griz
 
Old 05-31-2006, 05:17 PM   #58
Lucille
By implying that I have in any way not weighed the rights of children, you misunderstand my analysis.

On a lighter note, you may be one of the few extant that will seriously say they understand the thought processes of a woman...

We will talk more, later. I find that even when we have differences, we have respect for one another. If all the disagreements on this board could be met with such thought and quiet dignity, it would be a better place.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 05:25 PM   #59
Griz
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucille
By implying that I have in any way not weighed the rights of children, you misunderstand my analysis.
That's where the misunderstanding is taking place. I would never do you the disservice or insult of implying that you would not weigh the rights of the children. I think too highly of you to ever imply that.

However, where I think we differ is the weight in which we assign to those children vs the right of freedom of speech. I would rather err on the side of caution knowing full well I might be trampling on the 1st for that particular individual.

Griz
 
Old 05-31-2006, 05:27 PM   #60
shrap
Well to answers Nicolai's original question.... Relationships are all about trust and honesty. If you don't trust one another then you have no business being in a relationship with each other. You are just going to make each other miserable and you will never truly be happy.

So with that being said..... My girlfriend and I do not get upset about each other taking a peak at another person when we are out. In fact we joke about it. If she busts me taking a long look she often just says, "you wish buddy" or "in your dreams", while giving me a playful elbow in the ribs and we laugh about it. I do the same with her when I catch her doing it. I am not worried about her cheating on me or her worried about me cheating on her, if we were we would not be in a relationship with each other.
 

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