A GREAT REASON TO ALWAYS QUARANTINE

I've always been told not to freeze a dead critter if I want a necropsy, as many tests can't be done on tissue that was frozen. Instead put it in the refrigerator on the lowest shelf or the meat drawer so it stays just above freezing.

um... yeah. You really needed to do a necropsy with tissue work on that boa to start making claims of IBD. There are multiple things that can cause the neuro issues, now you may never know what caused it and it's probably too late for IBD testing as you froze the body (never freeze, always refrigerate if you want to have a necropsy done!). It could have been a toxin, overheating, parasites/virus, IBD, possibly other things I can't think of right now. Also the thing with 'a year' is more for pythons I believe. IBD can stay dormant in boids for a long time from what I've read.

I went through an IBD scare (wrote it up on this forum a couple years ago) - turned out after necropsy and her tissues were sent for pathology testing (brain, liver, I forget what else, I think 5 samples were taken and sent to UC Davis) - it wasn't IBD. She had parasites that got to her brain. It still sucked (and was quite expensive) but having the peace of mind knowing my collection did not have IBD was so worth it. Now you don't know what is going on. :/

Keep a close eye on everything you have, if it was IBD, it's not known exactly how it's transmitted yet (theories are mites and simply air transmission). I hope it works out for you...

I'm sorry for you and your friend's loss


edit to add - yeah beheading is never a good way to put down snakes, their brains can stay active for up to an hour after beheading, they need to either be put down at the vet (mine was put down via heart stick) or blunt force head trama to destroy the brain (gunshot works I guess) but again, then you destroy the brain which is one of the tissues that needs to be sent to lab for testing

I agree with April. As someone who has also seen what an IBD scare can do (also posted on this forum), it's better to be safe than assume. Note that only a few labs can make that diagnosis for sure -- lesser labs have made errors and misdiagnosed. While it may cost some money, the peace of mind from knowing for sure is well worth it.

In addition, if it is IBD, knowing for sure will allow the owner to trace that animal back to its source and hopefully figure out where the infection came from...and if it is IBD, it needs to be addressed for other buyers' safety. You can press the guilty party for reimbursement and action...or down the road, others (who do not practice such good QT measures) will lose their entire collections.

By the way, major kudos for a good QT program. Either way you should be fine.

Im sorry about the freezing. I thought that would preserve better. Thats one thing i have not learned about. I had no interest in ibd,although i read a bunch. I just make sure i use quarantine practuces,i learned many things from some of you guys and im glad i did,or i possibly could have a bigger problem.
There were no mites present. But as stated,a year ago he had them.

Once again,thanks for the info April and Cliff. If there ever is a problem like this,i will not freeze.

So theres no way they can rule it out since its frozen?

Freezing causes tissue damage. It causes the cells to explode. These cells need to be intact for a proper diagnosis. Once they are exploded/destroyed, there is no way they can compare them to normal tissue cells.

So yeah, freezing is an almost guarantee that a diagnosis will not be accurate.

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

Freezing causes tissue damage. It causes the cells to explode. These cells need to be intact for a proper diagnosis. Once they are exploded/destroyed, there is no way they can compare them to normal tissue cells.

So yeah, freezing is an almost guarantee that a diagnosis will not be accurate.

Thanks Rich. I can and will take this as another lesson. A mistake i wont make again.

Originally Posted by allreptiles1966

Does your boss want it? He can biopsy it himself

We were going to get a blood test for him,but i noticed it on thursday and wouldnt get in for a week.
I was not taking the chance by keeping it in my house longer. So i put it down and froze him.

nah hes got plenty of specimens to work with, im sorry about the loss

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

um... yeah. You really needed to do a necropsy with tissue work on that boa to start making claims of IBD. There are multiple things that can cause the neuro issues, now you may never know what caused it and it's probably too late for IBD testing as you froze the body (never freeze, always refrigerate if you want to have a necropsy done!). It could have been a toxin, overheating, parasites/virus, IBD, possibly other things I can't think of right now. Also the thing with 'a year' is more for pythons I believe. IBD can stay dormant in boids for a long time from what I've read.

I went through an IBD scare (wrote it up on this forum a couple years ago) - turned out after necropsy and her tissues were sent for pathology testing (brain, liver, I forget what else, I think 5 samples were taken and sent to UC Davis) - it wasn't IBD. She had parasites that got to her brain. It still sucked (and was quite expensive) but having the peace of mind knowing my collection did not have IBD was so worth it. Now you don't know what is going on. :/

Keep a close eye on everything you have, if it was IBD, it's not known exactly how it's transmitted yet (theories are mites and simply air transmission). I hope it works out for you...

I'm sorry for you and your friend's loss


edit to add - yeah beheading is never a good way to put down snakes, their brains can stay active for up to an hour after beheading, they need to either be put down at the vet (mine was put down via heart stick) or blunt force head trama to destroy the brain (gunshot works I guess) but again, then you destroy the brain which is one of the tissues that needs to be sent to lab for testing

It is always a great idea to send out a biopsy, i have an old BCC import male who started showing signs of neurological problems, however the biopsy's came back negative and his bloodwork showed that he had malaria which is not that uncommon in WC boas, he eats great and everything, he's just a little tricky to handle.

Also the thing with 'a year' is more for pythons I believe. IBD can stay dormant in boids for a long time from what I've read.

^ Carriers of IBD can go years without showing symptoms, both boas and pythons thats why its so scary! you could have had an animal for 10 years and one day it could start showing symptoms, from my experience when a carrier of IBD becomes sick from an unrealted scenario thats when they start to go downhill.

Ok,if you have to send in organs for testing to get accurate results,what do i do
for live boa testing. Will my local reptile vet be able to do the blood test and come up with good results? For the safety of my collection i would like a few breeders tested. Even though i practice the quarantine methods and in two rooms above,i use humidifiers and they pass moisture around. I am a bit paranoid now.
If you think a local herp vet is not good enough,who do i have him send the blood samples to?

Thank you
Rich