Steve Lloyd [Vfxsteve1815]

I've put this off because I am an optimistic person who was trying to work things out privately as a bad BOI in this business can be detrimental and long lasting. That said I feel I have no choice.

I bought a pair of Womas off of Steven Lloyd [Vfxsteve1815] on Oct 14th 2016 and he shipped them to be here OCT 19th 2016. Prior to my purchase I did mention to Steve that the female in particular looks a bit haggard and I was concerned about her health. Steve assured me that she was 'just in shed.' I was excited to obtain these animals and have been very fortunate through this website not to get screwed, so I played along. Additionally, when I was sent the invoice Steve charged ME the PayPal fee. I know this isn't right, but again I was excited and thought the price even with the fee was fair -- so I paid it.

Steven informed me that I'd be getting a tracking number to track my animals shipment. I replied back to Steve explaining that I had-not received the number to which his reply was that, 'I should check my junk folder.' I'd like to think a good seller would have made it high priority to ensure me, the buyer, who has just in good faith sent $386 dollars to someone I've only spoken a few hundred words to in my life had the information I needed to track my product. Steve didn't get back to me as quick as I'd like so I called Reptile Express myself and had to bend over backwards to get them to fork over the tracking number. I then contacted Steve back to let him know I did his job -- he replied back to that message in 6 minutes. This leads me to believe he had no plans of getting me that number.

The animals arrive on time as expected and the female still looks under-weight, with a stuck shed, retained eye-cap, not overly alert, little tongue flicking, but I chalk this up to the long trip and that she is probably cold. I figure I'll handle this myself since trying to talk to Steve is like pulling teeth. I did however send him an email to let him know I received the animals and thanked him for them. I figured I'd get an email back acknowledging the arrival, but I guess he thought I got the animals, they aren't dead, and he has the cash -- so who cares.

I contacted Steve 9 days after I got the animals to explain that the female [and only her at the time] had visible mites. The male has since also proven to have mites. I explain to Steve that I have spoken with other buyers who state they also have animals that are under-weight, and infested with mites. Steve admits that, and I quote:

'Yes I had one Woma go out that had a few mites on it, (still unclear where they came from) none of my animals have any mites and have not had any. If you had concerns you should have brought them to my attention when they were received.'

He advises me not to use any harsh chemicals to alleviate the problem, and suggests soaking them in warm water with a little olive oil and that he'd follow up with me on a product he has used in the past that is 'natural.' That is roughly 3 days ago and he has yet to follow up. Again, as a seller I'd think he'd be trying to lend some credibility to his product by following through on his commitment. I have only kept 1 snake for a couple of years now. I used to keep around 12, but sold down my collection. The JCP I've kept these years didn't have mites prior to the Woma pair arriving and still does not as I did quarantine. Another buyer I spoke with states that Steve said this to him prior to shipping out his animal"

Quote: '"Shipment went out today. Let me know when you get him tomorrow. Also just as a precaution, I would not let him in contact with any other reptiles for a week or so. I have had issues before with reptile shipments getting mites in transit if there are other reptiles in the shipment."

Something clearly doesn't add up. I won't call anyones name out that I've spoken to on the side, but they have assured me they would reply to this BOI to lend a little more credibility to it. I will be emailing them a link to this post in hopes they keep their word. I have faith that they will.

I can no longer get the female to eat, she looks like shit, and I'm not sure how to proceed. I am a bit apprehensive on using PAM on this animal because of her poor health state. I am on the fence about trying to retract payment VIA PayPal, but I don't want to ruin what little reputation I have on this forum. I'm not a breeder, I'm a hobbyist. I'm looking for some direction from the community. I need to control the mite problem -- obviously. If Steve was local I'd take both animals back and demand a refund.

*Besides the obvious mites on the male everything seems alright. He is alert, active, eats, tongue flicking, displays curiosity, etc. The female does none of the former.

All throughout my contact with Steve I have apologized for being a difficult buyer, stayed optimistic, given him blind faith, explained I am not mad, but in reality I am furious. I know arguing through email will accomplish nothing so I've tried to maintain my composure.

I'm afraid the female with or without treatment will not make it another week. I'd expect Steve to refund me for her, or meet me in the middle on a partial refund? If I cannot nurse this animal back to health -- how am I to proceed? Is a PayPal retraction in order? A partial retraction if this animal dies? Should I send back the male if I do contest the payment and win?

I'm really upset, and to some people $400 may not be a lot of money, but to me it is. I work hard for my money like everyone else and I don't want to throw it away. Below I have provided our entire email correspondence.

TL;DR Bought 1.1 Womas off Steve Lloyd [Vfxsteve1815] Both animals have mites and the female in-particular seems to have waning health and will not eat. I'm fairly certain that Steve knew the quality of the product he was selling me and I need assistance on how to proceed.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this, and offer assistance on how I should proceed.

The following is the rest of our conversation VIA E-mail:

The following is the animal in question, [AA battery for scale] and a copy of my invoice. I have blanked out my address:

From post #2 Stephen's last email - you can not break the mite life cycle in five days. Treatment must continue for 30 days after you stop finding mites on your snake since an egg can take that long to hatch out and cause a re-infestation.

http://denardo.lab.asu.edu/publicati...snakemites.pdf

Kyle has the female woma been to a vet yet?

Kyle, I'm sorry that you are having to deal with something like this.

I'd recommend finding a vet for this poor girl. If anything, that can help narrow down what else may be wrong with her. Getting a trained vet on the case may be the difference between her making it or not.

I am not taking sides here, but as a seller I will mention that it is imperative to alert the shipper of problems immediately upon arrival. That way if the issue does continue/get worse, you have tangible evidence proving it showed up that way and wasn't a result of your own care.

I have not read the entire thread yet, but if you would have told me the snake in this picture was already dead when the picture was taken, I would have believed you.

If the female looked "haggard" BEFORE you bought them......then why are you surprised shes in bad shape? Look for quality animals elsewhere instead of trying to save a buck buying from someone cheaper. You get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by Mike Schultz

I am not taking sides here, but as a seller I will mention that it is imperative to alert the shipper of problems immediately upon arrival. That way if the issue does continue/get worse, you have tangible evidence proving it showed up that way and wasn't a result of your own care.

I agree with this (and I am not taking sides either). Kyle, the seller got a thank you email from you the day you received her on the 19th, no mention of any issues, and then nothing until the 28th.
The picture with the battery, what day was that taken?

The seller,
Vfxsteve1815 , has ads for these womas from 7/19-10/12 you can see them by looking up his account and looking at his past posts. What do you think of the rest of the snakes pictured that he was selling, are they haggard or healthy, in your opinion?