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General Legislative Discussions Any general discussion concerning legislative issues or events. Not necessarily specific to a particular region, or even a type of animal group.

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Old 10-15-2015, 08:31 PM   #61
rodneynboalich
I was asking you to explain your own words...how can a listing both be illegal and at the same time there be no rules or regulations for listing....you said both things....if there's no rules or regulations then there was nothing that violated they rules since as you said there are none
 
Old 10-15-2015, 08:46 PM   #62
CwnAnnwn
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneynboalich View Post
That's only if an original law was broken. Then it becomes lacey act / federal offense if any kind of border is crossed...that law doesn't apply to say exporting a species th as t is listed as injurious or invasive....and if you try and say it applies to everything then you will have to admit that the fws can restrict interstate commerce...because it says that
It is nothing to circles with you.

1). If you don't cross a border it is not exporting is it.

And

2.) It only applies if, and this is the the BIG IF, if another federal or state laws regulates that object.

Lacey act only enforces the regulation on a federal level. It can not just adding new species at will.

I need you to understand this. I am tired of going around in circles.

The lacey act needs one thing to function.

1.) It needs the object to be regulated by the state, foreign, and federal government that is not the lacey act itself.

If there is not a law or regulation on the book for that specific object, it can not be controlled by the lacey act.

Lets do some examples.

It is illegal to own and possess pythons (larger then 8 feet) in portland oregon. Any attempt to import or export pythons in portland oregon is 100% illegal, and you can get fined under the lacey act. It is only illegal to possess in portland, but importation illegal by the lacey act.

It is legal to own and possess pythons(any size) in hillsboro oregon, 8 miles from portland oregon. You can import and export pythons into hillsboro oregon, lacy act does not apply.

You talked about zebra mussels.

Zebra mussels are controlled by the Nonindigenous Aquatic Nuisance Prevention and Control Act.

Since it is regulated by another act, importation or exportation of the mussels is illegal under the lacey act.

You can get charged under the lacey act for importing leopard geckos from the wild, because of an international ban. But it is perfectly fine to import them from europe or another state.

Once again. Lacey act requires another law or regulation. If it is not illegal to import and export from your state, you can not be charged with a lacy act violation. Which is why we have a law suit.
 
Old 10-15-2015, 08:53 PM   #63
rodneynboalich
You are posting a law that applies to animals that are not listed as invasive or injurious... but are still covered under lacey on the grounds of original violation...such as state laws...or in the case of cities animals. An animal that was collected/transported illegally....


The section of lacey act / legal code a separate part...It's not dealing with invasive or injurious species directly but covers all..an this section of the legal code has to be set a part because..injurious /invasive listing are spacific to us law and are not subject to cities laws and the spacific laws of other countries....but does come into play in terms of cities agreement to uphold the laws of the countries involved in cities..which is around 130 of them...that's why it's illegal for indonesia to ship retics to the US...because of the cities clause agreements...which is separate from the law you are referring to in you post which is dealing with original offense making interstate and other form of transportation illegal, but is still under lacey act...the law you are posting is what makes it illegal import a bear skin from the US to Hawaii when the bear was killed illegally.........

Indonesia sending retics or any other species listed as invasive or injurious to the US is illegal because of they US listing them as such and under the cities agreement countries will uphold the laws and regulations of other countries ..

the US government can list species as invasive or injurious....and your post saying that they can't ban them is just wrong....they can ban them and regulate them...if they couldn't there would be no invasive or injurious listing there would also be no guidelines for what's consider illegal behavior with listed species and there would be no min/max legal pentilties..and last time I checked we have all of those things.
 
Old 10-15-2015, 08:59 PM   #64
rodneynboalich
Your Portland argument doesn't make any sense..that's not a state law that ls a local law..lacey doesn't apply....there's no lacey act violation on the state level because the state doesn't have a no big snake law....you are talking about local ordinance not state law...
 
Old 10-15-2015, 09:06 PM   #65
CwnAnnwn
Thank you for paragraphs.

You are still missing the point.

It can not regulate IN the lacey act. You can not add the 5 to the lacey act.

In order to regulate them, they needed to be added by congress in a separate bill. The interior just added them to the lacey act. Which is illegal. And, like your original post, should be challenged in the courts. But it is not the easiest fight. The easiest fight is interstate transport.

Because the lacey act is very vague on how it adds new species. But it clearly does not ban interstate transportation.

The local regulation would apply to the lacey act, if it crossed international or state lines.
 
Old 10-15-2015, 09:29 PM   #66
rodneynboalich
First you tell me that I'm wrong to want usark to fight to get the snakes unlisted because the secretary of the interior can list whatever he wants....now you are telling me that the secretary of the interior can't list whatever he wants and when he listed the snakes it was illegal


Is that really what you are saying now....

So im I still an idiot for wanted usark to fight to get the snakes unlisted since now you claim they were added illegally
 
Old 10-15-2015, 10:28 PM   #67
rodneynboalich
Ok it took me a while but here's. A link that totally breaks down the whole process on how the snakes where added.....http://lawlibrary.case.edu/research-...al-regulation/
 
Old 10-15-2015, 10:29 PM   #68
rodneynboalich
And no an ordinance ban on a snakes isn't a lacey act violation if if you fly the snake around the planet first
 
Old 10-15-2015, 10:49 PM   #70
rodneynboalich
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/42
 

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