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Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Laws, Legislative Issues & Alerts > USA State Specific Issues

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USA State Specific Issues Issues that are specific to a particular state, or subregion within a state, should be appended to the existing relevant thread. NEW threads cannot be created in this forum.

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Old 03-06-2004, 04:16 PM   #21
stevep
Thanks Mark

This makes me feel much better. I'll email the Susquehanna Ectotherms let them know. I saw a pair of Coastal plains and fell in love. I was bummed when ted said that he could not ship.

Thanks again for the info and your time.
Steve Pisarchik
 
Old 03-19-2004, 10:59 AM   #22
henryturtle
Need help fast: hatchling sales

There is a stand at my local mall that is selling 2" hatchling turtles, but I thought that turtles had to be 4" before they could be sold.
Any info on pertinent laws would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
 
Old 03-19-2004, 11:03 AM   #23
Sybella
Sure.

Here are the legalities of it:

http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_re...pg170-100.html
 
Old 03-19-2004, 11:51 AM   #24
henryturtle
Yay! Thank you so much!
I am trying to do something about this stand that is selling turtles--there were more than 70 turtle hatchlings in a 10 gallon tank, with no UVB lights or heat lamps!
On top of it, the turtle I bought had an infection causing his scutes to peel : (
Thanks a whole bunch.
 
Old 04-17-2004, 09:32 AM   #25
Glenn Bartley
Megan,

To me it sounds like you want this stand closed down, but that is just my guess. Ok, they are probably violating the law. They may even be improperly caring for the turtles. I see some other alternatives instead of just trying to put this one stand out of business. Maybe it is one of these alternatives which you are already considering, but for some reason I think otherwise - maybe it was that 'Yay" in your post that makes me feel this way. If you have already considered what I am about to suggest, then good for you. If not, maybe I will give you some alternatives to ponder:

Why not try to have the sub-four inch turtle ban repealed.

And why not also try to promote good turtle care among dealers, breeders and keepers.

As for their not being any UV lighting at a stand, that is not unusual. Nor is the lack of a heat lamp if the ambient temperature is sufficient. It does not necessarily mean the turtles are not cared for correctly at other times. However, as to the turtle with the infection, that does tend to show poor care for the turtles, as does having 70 turtles in a 10 gallon tank.

Now tell me: Why did you buy it? In doing so, have you violated the law? Have you aided, abetted or facilitated in a sale that violated the law, even though the seller was someone other than you? Have you done something that experienced herp keepers have often spoken out against - buying a herp that is ill because you felt sorry for it? Why didn't you simply report this stand to the authorities?

Instead you bought that turtle, which you must have felt was ok for you to do, but I get the feeling you may believe it is not okay for anyone else to do. If I am correct in that assumption, then what makes it ok for you to buy one of these turtles, and not for the seller to keep selling to others?

By the way, remember that if in the future you see someone selling sub-four inch turtles it may not be against the law at all. If the person is a hobbyist, who is not running a regular business that deals in turtles, such is permissible. I am not saying that this is what went on at the stand from which you made a purchase, just that you may see this at a herp show. It is also permissible to sell turtles for educational and scientific purposes, and for export. (I guess kids in other countries are not susceptible to salmonella as are our kids. A lame reason for this law; if it held water then eggs, chickens, and dairy products would be totally banned as most cases of salmonella arise from them.) Some people use these exceptions to conduct business, which of course would be illegal.

I am of the firm belief that this law would best be changed to allow sales, and believe that proper care should be something that all dealers, keepers and breeders strive for.

Best regards,
Glenn B
 
Old 04-18-2004, 11:10 PM   #26
henryturtle
Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Bartley
Why didn't you simply report this stand to the authorities?
I did, and the stand was shut down.
 
Old 04-19-2004, 01:09 AM   #27
Glenn Bartley
Megan,

I guess you missed my point or just choose to ignore it. No you did not simply report the stand to authorities, if I underatand correctly, you bought a turtle first then once you had your turtle, you reported the stand to authorities.

I should tell you though that what happened when the sale took place was probably a violation of federal law. You may have faciliated such by buying a turtle from this person; and it is possible that you might be considered, by some, to be one who aided and abetted another to commit a crime.

Have you turned that turtle over to federal authorities being that it was obtained by way of an apparent illegal sale?

Best wishes,
Glenn B
 
Old 04-19-2004, 09:16 AM   #28
henryturtle
No, I got your point, I just didn't like it.

I don't much feel like arguing this point.

I do not believe what you are telling me is correct just as you cannot believe that what I would say is correct. It's a lose lose situation and acomplishes nothing.

Thank you to the poster of the first reply for helping me.
 
Old 04-19-2004, 01:45 PM   #29
Glenn Bartley
My guess is you will not discuss the matter further because you likely cannot argue successfully your having bought the turtle when you knew the sale was illegal, nor could you likely argue successfully the purchase being ok for you to make but not for others to make, nor can you likely argue successfully your allowing the seller to make a sale to you and not to ohers, and nor can you likely successfully argue your keeping of the turtle that was acquired by an illegal sale of which you had fulll knowlege and participation. Most of all though, I am sure that you do not want your thoughts on this matter posted here for all to see because of the possible ridicule your ideas on this matter may incur.

By the way, I could believe that what you would say to be correct, that is if you said something that was right. For instance, I believe your story of the turtle sale, and of the possibly poor conditions under which they were kept. And I believe you bought one with a shell infection. Why would you think I don't believe all that? It is precisely because I do believe all of it, that I have arrived at the conclusion that what you have done is quite possibly legally wrong, and is in my opion, most definitely morally wrong, regarding your purchase of the turtle.

I can assure you I will not argue the issue any further; however, I may be required to act on it.

Sincerely,
Glenn Bartley
 
Old 11-09-2004, 02:08 PM   #30
sixgunsun1177
Dead horse

Glenn,

Thank you. Though your breath is wasted , on Megan atleast, I more than understand your point and agree with you completely.
 

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