V.I.I.P.E.R.--THIEVES!!

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

...Selling an item,created from a stolen image is copyright infringement. It isnt a "small little thing" when YOU try to make profit from it. It can be brought to court. and has before.

And will be again, if this nonsense continues. It is intellectual property, and it is protected. It would be very easy for me to contact a lawyer and take this to court. And make no mistake about it...it's fairly cut and dry. There isn't a whole lot of grey area to work with. I have the images and the timelines to back up every word of my claim.

I would like to note that I was a member of a forum (FreedomReptiles.com which has since shut down) where Chris posted the original herping picture. I also remember when he first started offering the stickers on the same forum. I am behind Chris 100% on this matter.

Maybe Amanda is really your twin, Chris, and you two were separated at birth. You actually share some thoughts without realizing it, and the day you designed these stickers she unwittingly thought she thought this up herself, not realizing she was picking up her twins thoughts.

BTW, I was abducted by aliens back in July, and probed repeatedly.
*puts tinfoil hat back on*

Amanda, just admit the idea and images were stolen, and apologize, and i'm sure it'll all go away. Otherwise, you only make it worse for yourself.

Originally Posted by awva

I'm sorry I had offered that in my e-mail to him and I keep getting blasted by him so I can see he doesn't want to work something out. He came to this site before even talking to anyone in the group about this and trying to come to reason before blasting a group that is only trying to do good.

Personally, I think it's always a mistake to come here with a bad-guy thread before giving the other party an opportunity to make things right. However, that doesn't change the fact that you have, so far, refused to do anything at all to fix this.

I believe your group is trying to do good...and we need MORE of that in the herping community. But, you do your own group a grave disservice by being so stubborn about admitting your wrong and attempting to make ammends.

The OP doesn't want money, he wants credit for his work, acknowledgement and an apology. None of that costs you anything except the self-inflicted pain of admitting that you first stole someone else's artwork and then that you blatantly lied about it.

If your group and its work is so important to you, you'll save what you can of its reputation by being honest from this point forward.

For the record, I sent emails to viiper2008@yahoo.com bringing my case to light before I posted here, and recieved no reply. I also posted comments on the photo itself at the viiper website before coming here and got no response.

Further, the incident was brought up originally on cornsnakes.com, where I was advertising other merchandise with this graphic on it. It was made public there before here, as well...and she is a member of that forum.

SINCE this thread, and the attitude displayed by Amanda, I have also posted this situation, and a link to this thread and a copy of the email correspondence between Amanda and myself on my OWN website for all to see.

In fact, if it wasn't for the thread on CS - Chris would never have known that someone else was using his image and idea and selling it. It was another member on CS that brought to his attention that they had seen the stickers for sale at a reptile show in October.
Which also brings up the question - if Amanda had this idea in March and they only printed 10stickers - how are they still selling them in October? That time frame would lead me to believe that more than 10stickers were printed (unless they just didn't sell well for them).

I also have seen Chris post on a multitude of sites the original photo back when it was taken and then subsequently it being turned into the sticker. I agree that there is no way possible an EXACT idea was formulated by another person. If it was just the slogan - maybe - but the scene represented in the sticker was taken directly off of Chris' photo - there is no way possible for that to have been duplicated by someone else without stealing the idea.

Considering that Amanda is a member on CS - and Chris posted it there for sale - would lead me to believe that is where it was stolen from.

I also believe that what viiper is trying to do is a good thing for the herp community. But it is defeating the purpose when something like this happens. I don't think an apology and acknowledgement of wrongdoing is too much for Chris to ask and is definately what he deserves.

I sold and/or gave away 38 of these stickers between September 1, 2008, and Early November, 2008.

Some were purchased online by friends, some were purchased via my website by other people, and some were purchased at the N.A.R.B.C. in Anaheim this past September. I also gave several away to friends and internet connections, and included a few in animal shipments.

I still have 2 left of the original batch of 40 that was made in late August 2008...

If VIIPER's claim is that "they're only a group trying to do good", then do the right thing:

Produce the source files for the "original design" (no self-respecting graphic artist, amateur or professional, would NOT archive their work), or fess up.

I too was a member of freedomreptiles.com, and recall the original posting of the photograph.

regards,
jazz

For the record, Amanda, the only involvement I've ever had with VIIPER was a few forum posts. I planned on deleting them later, but my account had been suspended to the point I couldn't even reply to posts....after asking Priscilla about it, she restored some access to my account...but I still didn't have the ability to delete my account. I have since deleted most of my posts and consider my involvement with the forum finished. I have never been to a meeting or had any other involvement...nor do I plan to.

Oh, and saying you came up with thi design is utter BS and we all know it...

Just wanted to say that I too saw these listed as for sale at the Richmond Expo on October 26th. My apologies Chris-- I had actually totally forgotten about it until I saw the posting on CS.com and this one here.

V.I.P.E.R... just 'fess up and go back to doing good for your local herping community. The resemblance is just too uncanny to not be stolen....