Chaos Reptiles and Pet Supply, Dan Peck and Josh Stone

And if you notice that Chaos reptiles and Chaos A.D. (Dan) were last online 2/14/09 and 2/19/09 (this morning) yet there has not been any response here. So much for limited internet access. Going to answer the questions that have been asked here Dan? Still waiting to hear from Josh too.

As a show promoter myself, I would not allow another vendor to put a sign on his/her table dissing another vendor.

I personally inspect all vendors animals, and I ask the vendors to remove suspect animals. If I recieve a complaint from another vendor during the show about another vendor's animals, I also investigate those animals as well, and if I deem them to be un-acceptable, I have those animals removed. (as show promoters know, sometimes a vendor will pull animals out from beneath their tables after a pre-show inspection).

As far as letting another vendor "diss" another vendor with a sign or being vocal about it, that vendor is removed from the show imediately. My opinion is, there is no room at my show's for customers to witness this type of behavior amongst vendors.

Randal Berry
www.Texasreptiles.com

Originally Posted by lanceheads

As a show promoter myself, I would not allow another vendor to put a sign on his/her table dissing another vendor.

I personally inspect all vendors animals, and I ask the vendors to remove suspect animals. If I recieve a complaint from another vendor during the show about another vendor's animals, I also investigate those animals as well, and if I deem them to be un-acceptable, I have those animals removed. (as show promoters know, sometimes a vendor will pull animals out from beneath their tables after a pre-show inspection).

As far as letting another vendor "diss" another vendor with a sign or being vocal about it, that vendor is removed from the show imediately. My opinion is, there is no room at my show's for customers to witness this type of behavior amongst vendors.

Randal Berry
www.Texasreptiles.com

I have to agree with what Randy says here. If there is a beef between vendors, it needs to be "taken outside" and not be on public display at any of my shows.

Well I guess I won't be doing the shows you both promote, too bad one was one I was considering doing. You call it "dissing" I call it providing the public and other vendors information that they wouldn't know about otherwise (not everyone checks the BOI). And for the two you who would not allow said sign you would also be disallowing me my First Amendment rights. I am not being rude, disrespectful, malicious or libel with my sign.

Originally Posted by lanceheads

As a show promoter myself, I would not allow another vendor to put a sign on his/her table dissing another vendor.

I personally inspect all vendors animals, and I ask the vendors to remove suspect animals. If I recieve a complaint from another vendor during the show about another vendor's animals, I also investigate those animals as well, and if I deem them to be un-acceptable, I have those animals removed. (as show promoters know, sometimes a vendor will pull animals out from beneath their tables after a pre-show inspection).

As far as letting another vendor "diss" another vendor with a sign or being vocal about it, that vendor is removed from the show imediately. My opinion is, there is no room at my show's for customers to witness this type of behavior amongst vendors.

Randal Berry
www.Texasreptiles.com

So you'd make a scene by removing a vendor (clearly violating his/her First Amendment rights) buy not allow a simple sign informing others of someone's shady dealings? No vocalization either? I'm sure you'd have quite a bit of trouble on your hands if you did indeed remove a vendor for either of the reasons of verbalization or the written word.

Originally Posted by DAND

Well I guess I won't be doing the shows you both promote, too bad one was one I was considering doing. You call it "dissing" I call it providing the public and other vendors information that they wouldn't know about otherwise (not everyone checks the BOI). And for the two you who would not allow said sign you would also be disallowing me my First Amendment rights. I am not being rude, disrespectful, malicious or libel with my sign.



So you'd make a scene by removing a vendor (clearly violating his/her First Amendment rights) buy not allow a simple sign informing others of someone's shady dealings? No vocalization either? I'm sure you'd have quite a bit of trouble on your hands if you did indeed remove a vendor for either of the reasons of verbalization or the written word.

David.

While I understand your frustration, you really need to bone up on the First Amendment. Not only does it not apply in this situation since you would be in a private venue that is being leased by the promoter, the promoter could be held jointly liable for any suit brought against you by the target of your sign.

Talk to an attorney before you make wildly inaccurate "legal" statements

Dave,
Sorry fella, but I wouldn't allow your sign at my show. Mrs. Kordek said as much also.
I can guarantee you Wayne Hill wouldn't allow it at Daytona either. (email him and ask him)

I have never had a problem asking a vendor to pack up if they violated a rule at my show.
They simply packed up and left, no muss, no fuss.

I rent the venue, and vendors are invited to vend at MY invitation. They sign an agreement with the rules of the show simply stated before they vend. If they don't like the rules, they are welcome to vend elsewhere.

Have a Nice Day!

Randal Berry

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

David.

While I understand your frustration, you really need to bone up on the First Amendment. Not only does it not apply in this situation since you would be in a private venue that is being leased by the promoter, the promoter could be held jointly liable for any suit brought against you by the target of your sign.

Talk to an attorney before you make wildly inaccurate "legal" statements

Dang John, didn't see your post! Thanks, you explained it beter than I!

Randal

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

David.

While I understand your frustration, you really need to bone up on the First Amendment. Not only does it not apply in this situation since you would be in a private venue that is being leased by the promoter, the promoter could be held jointly liable for any suit brought against you by the target of your sign.

Talk to an attorney before you make wildly inaccurate "legal" statements

I don't know how it works with public venue but when leasing space such as a house if you do something that brings legal recourse the landlord does not get nabbed on it, again it would probably depend if vendors were actually signing lease agreements vs just being allowed to sell in a specific space, which I agree is probably unlikely and illegal as the promoter would not have legal right to lease something to someone else. I see both sides but any libel suit is rather funny as one must show that it was truth and not libel, the same issue could happen to Rich with the BOI though laws and the net are still on shaky ground (the area of law I actually understand well is laws involving computer/network security I in no way claim to be doing more than stating how I understood things to be otherwise). It's a great deal about agreements or contract law. I could see why a promoter would ask the sign be removed to avoid any issue and using the word "right" in my last post was probably incorrect. The harm principle comes into play only when the speech is untrue....thing is no matter what the promoter can remove you "just because" in most instances so it may all be a moot point.

Originally Posted by Tuxus

I don't know how it works with public venue but when leasing space such as a house if you do something that brings legal recourse the landlord does not get nabbed on it, again it would probably depend if vendors were actually signing lease agreements vs just being allowed to sell in a specific space, which I agree is probably unlikely and illegal as the promoter would not have legal right to lease something to someone else. I see both sides but any libel suit is rather funny as one must show that it was truth and not libel, the same issue could happen to Rich with the BOI though laws and the net are still on shaky ground (the area of law I actually understand well is laws involving computer/network security I in no way claim to be doing more than stating how I understood things to be otherwise). It's a great deal about agreements or contract law. I could see why a promoter would ask the sign be removed to avoid any issue and using the word "right" in my last post was probably incorrect. The harm principle comes into play only when the speech is untrue....thing is no matter what the promoter can remove you "just because" in most instances so it may all be a moot point.

1 David is not simply trying to tell the story of what happened to him. He is urging others not to do business with them. That translates into damages. He is making the assumption that they will treat everyone that way and is stating his opinion as fact.

2 A formal "lease" has nothing to do with it. If I am a promoter, and i allow David to display the sign described and the targets sue him for it. I am complicit. If the case if is decided in his favor (and it probably would be) there is an excellent chance that i would also share in paying any damages awarded.


No promoter in his right mind would allow that sign.

Originally Posted by DAND

Well I guess I won't be doing the shows you both promote, too bad one was one I was considering doing. You call it "dissing" I call it providing the public and other vendors information that they wouldn't know about otherwise (not everyone checks the BOI). And for the two you who would not allow said sign you would also be disallowing me my First Amendment rights. I am not being rude, disrespectful, malicious or libel with my sign.



So you'd make a scene by removing a vendor (clearly violating his/her First Amendment rights) buy not allow a simple sign informing others of someone's shady dealings? No vocalization either? I'm sure you'd have quite a bit of trouble on your hands if you did indeed remove a vendor for either of the reasons of verbalization or the written word.

Dave, I assume you were talking about Kelley's show because she is much closer to you than my San Antonio, Tx show, besides Millbrook has a contract with me.

Randal Berry