Prey size for pits

I have a pair of black pines that were hatched in late August. I am currently feeding them 2 rat pinks once every 5 - 7 days. They are taking them VERY eagerly (image that! ) and the pinks are leaving almost no bulge. I have not kept pits since the early nineties. Back then, I thought it was OK to use my bulls as trash cans. They never seemed to suffer from it.

After reading the care sheet on the Pituophis Pages over on KS, I am starting to reevaluate my old views.

I would like to get these babies up to breeding size but am more than willing to wait until their third year before pairing them up.

They are VERY active snakes and are both between 21 - 22" long. About a 24 - 36 hours after feeding, they are prowling their boxes. Should I bump them up to a third rat pink at each feeding, switch to rat fuzzies or just keep pace like I am for the next few months. I have enough rat pinks in the freezer to last me until around March at the present rate. I was considering moving them up to fuzzies then....

What do you folks think? Here is a picture of the female with two rat pinks:

BTW, that Sterilite tub is the same size as the one I am keeping her in. Is it time for an upgrade?

I don't do KS anymore so I don't know what you are refering to about what they said about feeding and what you need to reevaluate about your old views. That said they are definitly big enough to go to the next size, but if you have enough pinks to last until March (and nothing else to feed them to) give another or even double up. Either way willl be okay.

The size on the enclosure looks to be plenty sufficient also.

From what I've read and my own personal experience, it's usually best to wait until 3 years of age before breeding Pituophis. Some people "power feed" their colubrids to get them up to breeding size quickly but Pituophis have very large eggs and seem to do better when raised on a more typical feeding schedule (once every 7 days or so). I would think that a less than optimum sized pine would be at greater risk for becoming egg bound too.
Some pits can be prone to going into a chronic regurgitation cycle when they are fed very large prey items. This seems to be more common in some of the more slender pits (i.e. vertebralis, jani, affinis, etc.) but can probably occur in any of them. If this ever happens with your pines, don't offer them anything for atleast two weeks and then start them on very small prey items.

If your black pine is easily getting the rat pinks down and they're not leaving an obvious bulge than you'll probably be fine moving to the next larger size.
You don't have to be too worried about it but when in doubt, go with the size you know they can handle.

Here's a couple of my hatchlings from last year...
<img src=http://gila.fieldherpers.com/Photos/bp1.jpg>
<img src=http://gila.fieldherpers.com/Photos/bp2.jpg>

Very cool pics! I don't recall ever seeing black pines coming out of the egg.

As far as the feeding of any pit., whether it is one of the North American animals or the central american animals, we always err on the side of small. A good friend of mine is a Vet here locally and did some comparison tests on young snakes and found the smaller prey to be eaiser to digest and metabolize. If you think about it a minute it does make sense. So my advice would be feed numerous small items as versus one large item. The animal will assimilate the prey faster and there will be less chance of regurge also as an extra benefit. As far as size of the container is conserned, we use the 7 gallon rubbermaids till the animals are about 3 1/2' - 4' feet, they seem to do better in a smaller cage even though clean up is more often and a little more of a big deal.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Thanks for your input John. It is always reassuring to hear from someone with your reputation. I am torn. I want to pick up a couple of black milks from you but I also want to get a pair of Brooksi. I doubt my wife will be pleased if I have all four arrive in one year

I just expanded the pit group by about 23 animals and they arrived in three shipments, I had one come to the house and two to the office and slipped them in. She never new the difference, now the trick will be to keep her from cleaning those cages and realizing they are new. If I can et away with it for about 6 months, she will never know. She says I am addictte, I think I am just intense. LOL.,

John Chery
Cherryville Farms

Pit people always seem to have the best taste
You can't go wrong with either of those choices. If you can get your wife to call mine I'm sure she can convince her how fortunate she is to only have four new snakes coming in this year.

John,
How are you able to get your wife to help you clean cages? That's true love

By the way Dean....since you liked the black pine hatching pics, here's one of my gaigeae getting his first view of the world.
<img src=http://gila.fieldherpers.com/Photos/gaig.JPG>

If she ever wants to see me anymore, she has to come to the snake house or out into the barn. But after 33 years of marriage and keeping reptiles for all those years she does help from time to time. With the environmental company, 400+ adult breeders and the minature horse operation I sleep about 5 hours a night. Which means she and I are both going constantly. That is why most of the time my emails are anwered at about 2:00 in the morning before I go to sleep for a few hours. God was good to me when he sent me her, she can clean cages, show/breed horses, manage the house and still find time to pat me on the head from time t o time. A great girl. LOL

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms