AL Cortiz, BAD GUY

Robert
Your quote
"I also know of "Burrowing Asps" being brought in that were actually Purple Glossed snakes. Well if a Bouelgerina is brought in and it's not an annulata but a cristyi ,seem's to me they really don't care."

Burrowing Asps (Atractaspis ssp.) and Purple Glossed, (Amblyodipsas ssp.) are SO similar in appearence that hardly anyone can tell them apart. However, B. annulata and B. christi are WORLDS apart in appearence.

Randal Berry

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

Shouldn't we make sure we follow the laws?

Yeah Justyn, shouldn't we? You're a lying thief and what you did was criminal.

That's not what I'm saying. I said that even when error's are brought to the attention to USFW they don't know the difference between a squam and a cerataphorus. If Joe and Al intended (Cupability) to bring in the cristyi as annulatta ,you may have a point. If the exporter didn't know a Garter snake from a Gila monster and his latin dictionary was at the cleaners .Thats not smuggling. Intent has to be proved.You've alleged that Al went behind your back and "stole" your exporter. You "alleged" that Al and Joe are "smugglers" . I'm just asking for proof. End of story! I can say all day long that you like kiddie porn.Without proof . No copies factual documents.What do I have? ZERO. NOTHING.Sorry bud. Your making very serious allegations and you better be able to back them up.If you can't when the "rubber meets the road" I hope you have compitant legal council available.

Originally Posted by lanceheads

Robert
Your quote
"I also know of "Burrowing Asps" being brought in that were actually Purple Glossed snakes. Well if a Bouelgerina is brought in and it's not an annulata but a cristyi ,seem's to me they really don't care."

Burrowing Asps (Atractaspis ssp.) and Purple Glossed, (Amblyodipsas ssp.) are SO similar in appearence that hardly anyone can tell them apart. However, B. annulata and B. christi are WORLDS apart in appearence.

Randal Berry

Aggreed .But at the same time Bitis "adders" has been imported and they have been gaboonica ,cornuta et al. But as long as the "fit" the profile there dosen't seem to be much of a fuss. Besides if you look at the current taxonomy from Wolfgang Wurster the Boulengerina and Paranaja have been reclassified as Naja. So if you import a "Boulengerina" and it's now a "Naja" are you not in violation of the Lacey act? Splitting hairs? Maybe.I personally feel that Joe and Al probibly have there ducks in a row.Jeeze how many pages of this have gone on before Joe had enough. I think we should all kick back and see what if anything happens. If things keep going like this maybe we should see if Al or Joe burn at the stake as witches!

uh Robert, Wolfgang doesn't determine the taxonomy of ANYTHING. His group with Malhotra and others offer their opinion just like Vogel and his group, and Campbell and Lamar, etc. etc..do. I would be more than eager to get into a taxon discussion with you, but it it off topic here.

Randal Berry

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

What I can't believe on here is you people are saying it's OK to smuggle animals, it happens all the time. If you see it happening, report it. If this crap continues with smuggled animals out hobby will be bust.

Where oh dimwitted one has anyone said hey it's OK to Smuggle ?? Come on Justyn where is that PROOF !!! you have provided zip zero for Proof !!! Get some proof and I bet some here would be interested but until that happens you just look like a Thief with his panties in a wad... Randy

The photo I posted of the B. christyi is proof of what species these are. These are Al's animals prior to being sent to Al. The photo was taken by the collector who sold the animals to Al's exporter. I received this photo. I also have a photo of Al's squams prior to being exported (exact same animals). These were all originally my animals but my REAL paperwork is still pending. Al's got fake paperwork and his exporter bought the animals that my exporter was supposed to get. So in a way, those are MY snakes, thanks Al! I am sure Al got the exact same photos prior to them being exported. Unless Al & Joe are idiots they knew the water cobras sent where not the same species as B. annulata. Since there is only one other species and the photo clearly matches the description for B. christyi, hmmm......

Al knew what these were or at least had a good idea. Why do you think he post post the photo of the water cobras on here? Knowingly (or doubtful, but maybe not) Al and Joe imported B. christyi and cleared them as B. annulata. ALL their documents have B. annulata, even the fake health certificate.

Al, why don't you look at the health certificate and then the IATA packing list and see if they have the same document number on them and signed by the same person. They HAVE to be, otherwise the health certificate was not issued at the same time as the IATA packing list. Why don't you or Joe comment on this?

As for the name change going into a different genus. The species would still be valid. Now if both species were combined into B. annulata, then Al would not have any issues. Unfortunately for Al and Joe, they are two very distinct and easy to tell apart species. Photos and accurate descriptions are very rare fr B. christyi because they are found in a war torn country. I have the original description and included it in the thread for anyone doubting the coloration.

I think I've done enough proving what I've said. Al and Joe, try to disprove me with photos of the water cobras.

Originally Posted by ravensgait

Where oh dimwitted one has anyone said hey it's OK to Smuggle ?? Come on Justyn where is that PROOF !!! you have provided zip zero for Proof !!! Get some proof and I bet some here would be interested but until that happens you just look like a Thief with his panties in a wad... Randy

You haven't proven anything! which is no surprise considering that it is you... Randy

These are quite serious allegations I've made. I'm not known for this kind of behavior and I would not be saying this if I was not 100% sure it was true.

Answer this: Don't you find it odd that Al and Joe won't answer the questions about the water cobras (or post a pic) and Al won't answer any of the questions I've asked him.

The ONLY time Smugglin Al shows his face is when I'm being bashed to all hell. OK, and on YouTube when his mamba escapes and he to tell everyone about it.

Originally Posted by ravensgait

You haven't proven anything! which is no surprise considering that it is you... Randy

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

These are quite serious allegations I've made. I'm not known for this kind of behavior and I would not be saying this if I was not 100% sure it was true.

Answer this: Don't you find it odd that Al and Joe won't answer the questions about the water cobras (or post a pic) and Al won't answer any of the questions I've asked him.

The ONLY time Smugglin Al shows his face is when I'm being bashed to all hell. OK, and on YouTube when his mamba escapes and he to tell everyone about it.

Yes they would be serious allegations if someone with a half decent reputation brought them but alas you Justyn brought them here. And yes we know you're not known for doing the right thing and still are not known for that.

Yeah just like you were 100% going to post that proof way back when and oh lets not forget the proof you've promised us in this thread that hasn't found it's way from your mind to your keyboard...

No I don't find it odd they don't answer you Justyn, I guess unlike myself they got tired of baiting the Troll and since the troll just wont shut up and crawl back in its cave I and others will keep tossing crap your way Bon Appetit ... Randy