AL Cortiz, BAD GUY

Sorry Justyn but all this sounds like is that your upset about someone else getting a shipment. Even your "supposed" proof says the same thing. If you ask me this whole thread shouldn't even exist ... it's all allegations with no proof ... just hearsay and assumptions. The only good that has come out of it is showing us all what kind of person you are.

First, I am known for doing the right thing.

FOR YEAS I was well known for this. Last year I had a lot of issues fall on me (my own fault) but I still did a HUGE amount of work on the upcoming laws on Texas regulating venomous snakes.

I am known for my publications that have helped MANY people figure out how to keep their animals correctly.

I have said this OVER AND OVER, I am working on repaying my debts, I have all but a very few left to take care of. I am working on it. I did not hide or change my name. I informed everyone who I was debt to when I moved and my new address. I answer their e-mails when they send them to me and update them. I have not settled all my debt for one reason and one reason ONLY. I can not right now. If I had the money it would be in their hands. In the mean time I have to survive and my family comes first. I'm not going to starve my child to death to pay off someone. I am being as thrifty as I can be to save money. I am taking on as many odd jobs as I can to supplement my income. I am still selling animals, good animals, and business is picking up. I WILL take care of everyone.

You act like I'm on vacation or something.

It would have been easier for me to go hide under a different name or even legally CHANGE my name or a least my business name. I would have been able to fraud more people that way don't you think? I never once tried any of those unlike EVERY other scammer out there. I have stuck to my name, I have admit ed my mistakes, and I am taking care of the issue. I believe it would have been wrong for me to do it any other way.

The only thing I did wrong was made a bad mistake. I learned from it. It could have happened to anyone. I fell on hard times with a reduced cashflow for various reasons. When problems happened with the shipments I wasn't able to refund everyones money like I wish I could have. If you want to continue to comment on this, put it on MY thread, not Smugglin Al's. Better yet, call me, my number is on my website.

Originally Posted by ravensgait

Yeah just like you were 100% going to post that proof way back when and oh lets not forget the proof you've promised us in this thread that hasn't found it's way from your mind to your keyboard...

No I don't find it odd they don't answer you Justyn, I guess unlike myself they got tired of baiting the Troll and since the troll just wont shut up and crawl back in its cave I and others will keep tossing crap your way Bon Appetit ... Randy

When I started this thread I posted e-mails that AL sent to me. No proof, my a**. As for smuggling animals, luckily USFWS doesn't care what Fauna says and will go based on pure facts. We will see that result within a few weeks I'm sure.

Originally Posted by loteer

Sorry Justyn but all this sounds like is that your upset about someone else getting a shipment. Even your "supposed" proof says the same thing. If you ask me this whole thread shouldn't even exist ... it's all allegations with no proof ... just hearsay and assumptions. The only good that has come out of it is showing us all what kind of person you are.

Justyn -

You sent me that very same photo on January 14th asking me what species they were. I replied to you that I thought it was too difficult to positively tell because the snakes were dirty, clumped together and difficult to see much detail. You said they were collected outside of Kinshasa, I believe both annulata and christyi are found in that area. They could be intergrades, would that make the documents all right or all wrong? You were planning on importing them, would you have imported them as christyi or annulata? What if there were 15 christyi, 5 annulata and 5 unknown or intergrades? If they listed them as all christyi or all annulata who would be to blame?
Then what about Grayia ornata? There could have been some in that picture you posted also, a colubrid mimic. It would be very difficult for a collector to tell the difference, especially from annulata.
There is no way anyone has any control over the knowledge of the individual collector or the exporter or what they stick in that box.
These aren't even C.I.T.E.S. animals.
The reason for this thread is pretty obvious to everyone. Let's move on to something a little more productive.

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

The photo I posted of the B. christyi is proof of what species these are. These are Al's animals prior to being sent to Al. The photo was taken by the collector who sold the animals to Al's exporter. I received this photo. I also have a photo of Al's squams prior to being exported (exact same animals). These were all originally my animals but my REAL paperwork is still pending. Al's got fake paperwork and his exporter bought the animals that my exporter was supposed to get. So in a way, those are MY snakes, thanks Al! I am sure Al got the exact same photos prior to them being exported. Unless Al & Joe are idiots they knew the water cobras sent where not the same species as B. annulata. Since there is only one other species and the photo clearly matches the description for B. christyi, hmmm......

Al knew what these were or at least had a good idea. Why do you think he post post the photo of the water cobras on here? Knowingly (or doubtful, but maybe not) Al and Joe imported B. christyi and cleared them as B. annulata. ALL their documents have B. annulata, even the fake health certificate.

Al, why don't you look at the health certificate and then the IATA packing list and see if they have the same document number on them and signed by the same person. They HAVE to be, otherwise the health certificate was not issued at the same time as the IATA packing list. Why don't you or Joe comment on this?

As for the name change going into a different genus. The species would still be valid. Now if both species were combined into B. annulata, then Al would not have any issues. Unfortunately for Al and Joe, they are two very distinct and easy to tell apart species. Photos and accurate descriptions are very rare fr B. christyi because they are found in a war torn country. I have the original description and included it in the thread for anyone doubting the coloration.

I think I've done enough proving what I've said. Al and Joe, try to disprove me with photos of the water cobras.

I found out for sure what they were since then, why do you think I haven't gotten my shipment yet? Until I found out I was unable to ask for transit permits. Al ended up getting the exact same animals that were supposed to go to me, except he got them faster because he had FAKE paperwork.

Both species are found in that area, no intergrades are known to occur. My exporter would have sent me EXACTLY what I ordered because I told him how important it was to make sure ALL the paperwork was correct or it could close the whole thing down and the airlines would no longer accept them.

It doesn't matter if they are CITES animals or not, that would have just been another violation. Laws are laws Erik, and we need to follow them. If we don't feel that we can follow them we should not take the chance to import from those exporters.

I have control over what my exporter sends me. He has to send a photo of EVERY type of animal before hand to make sure I have all my ducks in a row.

Al and Joe smuggled wildlife into this country under a diffferent name. It's ILLEGAL. YOU can not condone this behavior, can you? You've imported stuff, it's important to follow the laws. I just can't believe your making these statements. If you don't feel you or Al can play importer legally, then don't.

As for telling the difference, one is dark and speckled and one has bands! It's not hard!

Tell me Erik, what happens if an exporter sends animals and they did not box them according to IATA guidelines? Half the time USFWS fines you and confiscates the animals. You also have to make sure your guy know the proper way to bag them, label them, how many animals per a bag, bag length (for venomous), make sure the box is made correctly with enough air holes, etc. Importing blindly is taking a chance and sometimes you learn the hard way. What is bad is I warned Al and Joe about these exact issues back in Oct. I told the what to watch out for and the issues I had with the exporters. They did not take my advice.

Originally Posted by erk2

Justyn -

You sent me that very same photo on January 14th asking me what species they were. I replied to you that I thought it was too difficult to positively tell because the snakes were dirty, clumped together and difficult to see much detail. You said they were collected outside of Kinshasa, I believe both annulata and christyi are found in that area. They could be intergrades, would that make the documents all right or all wrong? You were planning on importing them, would you have imported them as christyi or annulata? What if there were 15 christyi, 5 annulata and 5 unknown or intergrades? If they listed them as all christyi or all annulata who would be to blame?
Then what about Grayia ornata? There could have been some in that picture you posted also, a colubrid mimic. It would be very difficult for a collector to tell the difference, especially from annulata.
There is no way anyone has any control over the knowledge of the individual collector or the exporter or what they stick in that box.
These aren't even C.I.T.E.S. animals.
The reason for this thread is pretty obvious to everyone. Let's move on to something a little more productive.

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

When I started this thread I posted e-mails that AL sent to me. No proof, my a**. As for smuggling animals, luckily USFWS doesn't care what Fauna says and will go based on pure facts. We will see that result within a few weeks I'm sure.

Do us all a favor and re read the emails you posted ... No proof in them ... just a bunch of assumptions on your part. If you feel different i challenge you to re post them with an explanation bellow each line that you claim is proof ... Or just PM it too me.

It's funny how scammers/scumbags always seem to have the same threats ...

Justyn

After sifting through all of the posturing and rhetoric, I see two actualpoints that you are desperately trying to make.

1.) The original post tapdanced around a bit but really, the only thing you actually complained about was that Al got the information on you shipment in an "unethical / illegal manner" In Post #281, Joe Switalski responded with:

As far as the Congo goes, its simple. After Al saw that his shipment wasn't going out back in November of 2007 when it was suppose to, he simply emailed the cargo manager at the international airport in Kinshasa and asked him if a shipment left for him. He responded and told him no, the only shipment left was for a Justyn Miller. Does this look like Al bullied, lied, or cheated to get Justyn's information? Heck no, I even saw the email in which Al sent to the cargo manager! It's the managers fault for blowing Justyn's information to Al. He never asked for.

That pretty much takes care of your initial reason for starting this thread. Given your reputation, I am pretty sure EVERYONE reading will accept his explanation.

2.) When your first point fell flat, your second leap of logic is a claim that they are guilty of smuggling. As someone else pointed out earlier, smuggling would be the intentional misrepresentation of the animals as another species. If, (and I am not saying they were), the animals were unintentionally mislabeled as a close subspecies, that falls into the error realm. Something that would probably need to be corrected but obviously not a crime.

The Email that Joe also posted from the agent in Brussels negates your further wild claims about forged documents.

Joe has systematically proven all of your allegations to be false. He has posted proof. You have posted rumours based on fiction. In essence, you are coming off here as a whiny brat who is pissed off that someone who actually has the funds to pay for the animals he imports got a shipment you would have liked.

The only one who has been harmed by this ridiculous and petty thread is you

You don't have the correct paperwork, that animals is ILLEGAL. Also, how do I know the heath certificates are fake? Well, they person who signed them left that office after the presidential election there in the middle of LAST YEAR. The health certificate is valid for only 10 days from the date it was signed. Two different people also signed the packing list and the health certificate. They have to be signed by the same person to show that the health certificate applies to the animals on the packing list and not a different list.

As for the agent in Brussels, he is a freight forwarder and would have no real knowledge or time to investigate the situation. He has only dealt with reptiles from the Congo one time before, and that was to me.

I am pissed that Al is making importing animals off my hard work to allow that airlines to export venomous.

Whatever you think, he brought in illegal animals under false paperwork. He couldn't even get the correct names on there.

Also, the definition of smuggle: "to import, export, or convey goods surreptitiously OR in violation of the law."

So if Al and Joe did not bring these animals in LEGALLY, they are smuggled.

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

The Email that Joe also posted from the agent in Brussels negates your further wild claims about forged documents.

Joe has systematically proven all of your allegations to be false. He has posted proof. You have posted rumours based on fiction. In essence, you are coming off here as a whiny brat who is pissed off that someone who actually has the funds to pay for the animals he imports got a shipment you would have liked.

He has yet to post a photo of the water cobras. Just to clear up everything, he has yet to say what species he ILLEGALLY imported them under.

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

Joe has systematically proven all of your allegations to be false. He has posted proof. You have posted rumours based on fiction. In essence, you are coming off here as a whiny brat who is pissed off that someone who actually has the funds to pay for the animals he imports got a shipment you would have liked.

Good God Justyn...it's like talking to a wall. Your first round of baseless accusations are proved false so you toss out another batch. Lets put it in terms even you should be able to understand

Justyn = No Proof

Joe = Proof

Just because you spew out a fountain of verbal diahrea without the facts to back it up does not mean that Joe or Al have to prove you wrong. They owe you zippo.

Bottom line, post hard evidence or shut the hell up and quit wasting band width

What a whiny little sour grapes bitch.