kenneth Yates of South Carolina

I just recieved an email from Mardi and He did bag the snakes, but he DID NOT box them or ship them. He did bag six neotropicals, but only two came to me, so there is only one person that knows what happened to the other four before they were boxed and after they were bagged. I would like to say that Mardi seems to be a very stand up guy and nothing that kenneth has done should reflect on him in any way.
Thanks
Kevin Smith

Body/Mass do indeed play a factor but, not as much as stress and condition.(Before they were shipped) Two very extreme examples... I found a male Haitian Boa loose back in the early 80's. The outside temps were in the low 30's to the high 50's for about 3 days. The extreme low that night was 28. Since none had been imported for some time previous it obviously was an escaped pet. The specimen was found in a yard and showed no signs of life. I took it inside for preservation(Formulin). I didn't get back to it for about 3 hours. I went back and it was quitely sitting on a shelf!!!! It didn't even end up with any complications!(rare) It was exposed to sub-30 temps for at least 10 hours and sub-50's for at least 2 days. I've even had matas and poison arrow frogs recover from temps in the low 30's.(Not my doing) I think one of the big problems is that many people try to warm the specimen back up too fast. This puts them into shock! If you do get a specimen that has been chilled don't count it out right away! Leave it to warm slowly over the course of a few hours. Although, if it is simply cold and still alert you can increase the speed of the warm up. Still be careful. Sorry not on thread just figured I'd point it out.

I just recieved an email from Mardi and He did bag the snakes, but he DID NOT box them or ship them.

I'm not trying to question anyone's information, but is it common to pay someone to simply bag your snakes and then return them to you for boxing and shipping?

This whole thing is just weird. The boxes were wooden, they were marked "venomous snakes", so I have to assume that the airlines treated the boxes as live cargo. It just doesn't make sense that they got THAT cold during the transit.......6 hours? 8 hours?

Are you having a necropsy done on any of the dead animals?

Terese.... I gotta tell you.... if those were MY snakes (even though I don't have a "hots" license), and I had to ship them out.... you could be darn sure I would hire someone to bag them up, and then I would box them up.... If Ken wasn't familiar with handling hots (duh), I don't blame him a bit for hiring someone to bag them for him.... that's the ONLY thing he did right!

Neil

Aahhhhhhh, I get it now. Thanks, Neil, it was lost on me why someone would hire someone else to bag their snakes. I guess I just assumed (DUH!! That's what I get) that if you kept venomous, you handled venomous.

Learn something new every day.

Ray,

Yes, I have seen that before, I usually just simply put them in a closet with a space heater going on low until it reaches about 78F, that gives them plenty of time to recoup and they don't go into shock like you mentioned. I have had snakes pull out of it to my surprise, but have also been disappointed a few times. I have went to great lengths to save snakes in the past, such as recessitating them for an hour and managed to revive them. It is a very good idea to keep a recessitator just incase a snake is that far gone when it comes in. It has saved me at the airport quite a few times. I will post a picture of what I am talking about for anyone not familiar.

Teresse and Neil:

I also agree that is one thing that he did do right. As for the packing and using the cheap insulation with little or no heat source, that is absolutely crap and there was no excuse what so ever. Even if he is not familiar with hots, he should know how to insulate a box properly, since it should be the same with any snake that is shipped in these tempratures. I have not ever lost a snake and have shipped in the middle of winter numerous times, there is just no excuse for not using at least 3/4 inch or thicker(I prefer 1") insulation. I insulate in both winter and summer because it works in both hot and cold weather to keep the temprature constant and stable. Heat packs in the winter and cool packs in the summer. There is just no excuse for an animal dying because of laziness of the person shipping.

For just Teresse,

It is quite possible for an animal to get that cold during the winter. You have to figure what altittude they are flying at and what the tempratures are like that high up. They do not ship in a heated cabin on the plane unless it is a mammal, then it is in a pressurized cabin and I believe it is also heated, but not certain on that.
Thanks
Kevin Smith

i do not think it is right for all the name calling about me, although i do understand there are alot of children in this world.
i am willing to answer any question.

Ken,

That's your response to this situation?!!? I wouldn't worry about everyone elses posts, yours' screams, no I take that back, SCREAMS what your standards are.

Kevin,

I usually feel that you need to give the vendor a chance to fix the issue before going to any legal actions (a personal dislike of lawyers) but what I read by Ken's response, that is the only way you will ever see justice in this situation.

I don't think I called any names except for maybe "piece of work", but if I did, I apologize.
Anyways, for everyone else:
Here is a picture of the recessitator that I mentioned. These are quite handy to have around. You can use a small cathiter on the end of the hose to administer air to the snake. You can go to most surplus places and find one of these in the first aid section, it sure beat giving a snake mouth to mouth
Kevin Smith

i found out after i sewnt you the order that you buy them for VENOMIOD RESEARCH.