Buyer Beware of Steve Ori Forgotten Realm

If that boa is worth $450, then sell him to someone who wants him, Drew does not. Why ruin your rep. for $100?

Steve,

It would be helpful to read the first e-mails where Drew was requesting a specific animal as well as the conditions under which the deposit was going to be refunded.

Regards.

Seems buyer wasn't happy with what he saw in the end.
It still gets back to the signature that says "Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back."

Drew doesn't seem satisfied. I may be wrong, but in one of Drews emails Steve states he will get his money back if not happy. Why the $100 can't be refunded and this snake cannot be sold to someone that wants it is a mystery to me.

It appears Drew just wants his $100 deposit amount back, not a lot of money and it's not like he paid in full and wants that refunded. It's just a deposit amount for which Steve is going to great lengths to not refund.... satisfaction guaranteed...NOT!

OK enough. If you wish to investigate you'll find that there have been 33 posts other than Drew and myself the two involved. Out of the 33 posts 7 have posted only once, that leaves 26 posts by six individuals. They have a combined amount of posts of over three thousand posts since feb of 2002. Who that doesn't live with mamma anymore and is an adult has the time to post close to 2000 posts (which one of these people has done) in a years time? I'm sorry but if you check at this board you'll see how a teenager, who I came on this board to protect screwed me and caused me to be alittle doughtfull of all that is printed.
I give up. I'll call a few friends of mine:

Brian Sharp (one of my mentors)
Doug Matuszak
John @ salmonboas.com (Rich Ihle's manager, don't know Rich personnally)
Todd Smith (co-delveloper of the salmon boa with Rich Ihle)
Mike Smith (hypo Brazilian rainbows)
Brendon Magee of BCI by desighn (home of the harlequin boa)

I figure six breeders next to six teenagers should be fair. If these six well known breeders tell me to refund the money I'll be glad to and will provide an apoligy. If the majority of them say to I will. Can we leave it at that people?

Out of the 33 posts 7 have posted only once, that leaves 26 posts by six individuals. They have a combined amount of posts of over three thousand posts since feb of 2002.

Nice stats, but BIG DEAL. All that shows is that some people take the business of reptiles and the hobby rather seriously.

Who that doesn't live with mamma anymore and is an adult has the time to post close to 2000 posts (which one of these people has done)

This really has nothing to do with the issue on this thread and is a rather pointless stab in the dark IMHO.

I figure six breeders next to six teenagers should be fair.

Please point out the six teenagers you are mentioning? Because they are teenagers (supposedly) does that mean thier opinions are not of value?

Calling 6 breeders to keep someones deposit from an unsatisfied customer?

I think if you could get them to post here, that would show that they have an opinion also. Sounds like you better ask one of them for a loan for the $100 while you are at it.

You do care about your public opinion, otherwise you wouldn't have posted here at all. So, by insulting everyone as you just did, you just shot yourself in the foot again. How much time an individual spends on the site is really none of your concern (unless you worry about how many times they see that assinine response of yours), so don't go there. Besides, how long did it take you to go through and count up who posts what, and how many times, and how much they've posted since...... By the way, hows your mom doing?

Another thing, calling and animal a "pastel stripe" (your words) means the animal must be pastel and striped. M3 could be considered pastel yes, it's a nice looking snake, but striped it is not. The other snake is reverse striped but not striped, there's a difference and you know it. I don't call het for albino corns albinos, and in the same fashion I don't call het for stripe, stripes. If you say an animal will be a stripe, that animal must display the phenotype.

It boils down to this, he placed a deposit on a "pastel stripe" (again your words). Not a possible pastel that is probably het for a whole bunch of striping. "PASTEL STRIPE," do you have one of that phenotype to sell him or not? If not, send him back his money. Frankly, when you go so far as to advertise "satisfaction guaranteed" you should send him his money back even if the only thing not satisfying him is the price.

Steve, I don't know you, but you are one of the people from the west coast I have actually heard of before, and I had always heard good things. $100 is not worth what this is doing to your reputation. With the type of animals you produce you must guard that reputation closly. Otherwise people won't be sending you deposits on anything.

It would be nice to be a 29 year old teenager......

This is really a simple problem to solve. All the emails are the proof of this low budget crime drama.

Just send the deposit back Steve. Not everyone can stand to lose $100 like it is nothing. Preserve your good reputation.

Take care!

Billy Fraser

Well, I guess we all sit back and wait for Steve's self appointed grand jury of six well known breeders to decide the fate of Drew's $100 deposit.......... to refund or not to refund!

Hoping they don't mind having their time wasted.

Just to think, this could ALL be avoided by refunding and selling the snake to someone else. Steve states in one email to Drew that he has a lot of people waiting, so why not refund and sell to one of the waiting parties?

"Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back".... huh, whatever happened to customer service?

Better run, mamma's calling!

He never said he had to have a male reverse stripe until the end as you can see from the emails. This after I turned down two possible customers for M3 and held up my othere depositers till he made his selection. What do I tell the other people who put in there 100.00 deposit and had to wait on him?

Here is an e mail dated 3/1/03

Hello Drew,

Certainly you can get your money back. There are only a few that are full reverse tail stripes. Quite a few have very unique tails with a partial reverse stripe. So far you'd be the first to but a deposit down and I'm only gonna keep one of the reverse stripes and it has both forms of stripe so it would have cost quite a bit if I were to sell it. This is a genetic trait that is carried by all of these animals. Any of the siblings even if they don't show any striping themselves can throw full stripe babies. Last year there were four head to tail stripes in the litter. YOu just never know what to expect with the stripes. Thats one of the reasons I like them, that and all are unique from each other. You can keep this email as a contract. It is as legal and binding as a written contract of any type. Let me know what you want to do. I'm sending you a link to my kingsnake gallery where most of the animals I've got for sale are located. I've also got a 66% dh for snow circleback yearling for sale that isn't pictured. I'm also expecting babies of the following: albino burmese pythons, Diamond/ Jungle carpet pythons, Mexican black tail boas, Jungle boas, and normal boas siblings to the jungles (normal looking sibllings to the jungles have been known to produce junglles). Let me know. Here's the link: http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index...at=500&thumb=1

Drew <drunsar@ptdprolog.net> wrote:

If I put a deposit down and if there is no more reverse stripe can I get my money back. Thanks Drew



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Ori [mailto:aforgottenrealm2000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 3:00 AM
To: drunsar@ptdprolog.net
Subject: Re: Message about: JUST BORN PASTEL STRIPE/REVERSE STRIPES



Hey Drunsar,

They've just been born and haven't shed the first time yet. They seem to get more pink with every shed. Also they are all different. I usually wait till they've shed twice and eaten at least once before I sex, take pics, and price them. They'll go anywhere from 150.00 to around 500.00 depending on stripeing and coloring. The reverse stripes will be at the top end though. I haven't seen many pastel BCI reverse stripes on the market and I'm kinda proud of them. This is a genetic trait but isn't from the Pete Kahl line. But like Pete's line the litter is always real variable. Anywhere from full stripes (head to tail) to hardly any stripeing at all, just some doubled up saddles. Most are very attractive pastels though, stripeing or not. If you want to paypal a 100.00 deposit I'll be giving the order of selections in the order the deposits arrived. I have many well known references if you would like them. Let us know.

drunsar@ptdprolog.net wrote:

how much is a reverse stripe male. Thanks

----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.

Sent 02:30 PM, Feb 28th, 2003 from I.P. Address 168.73.245.57



Sincerely,
Steve Ori
Manager
A Forgotten Realm
Pet to Investment Quality animals
Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back




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Sincerely,
Steve Ori
Manager
A Forgotten Realm
Pet to Investment Quality animals
Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back





By this e mail I have asked for a male reverse stripe on march 1 03. What are you talking about I never asked for a male reverse stripe till the end. Why dont we end this and give me back my deposit and save your rep.