Pat Kline - neutral review

Originally Posted by caffeinecynic

Undoubtedly, Nicole was wrong for not having her frogs unboxed immediately. But would this be the same story if FedEx had happened to not deliver until 3 or 4? Because sometimes that happens, for all kinds of reasons...

To be clear here, the frogs WERE unboxed immediately. They were not removed from their cups immediately, since the seller had said "no problem" when I inquired about shipping arrangements because of my work schedule. THAT is where the seller holds some responsible for what happened here. And frankly if I were to ask for a refund, or the seller were truly interested in good customer service, I think one should be offered due to the seller's mistake in not clarifying the situation
By saying "no problem" to BOTH hold for pickup (regardless of including delivery to another person in that inquiry, seller said "no problem" to BOTH), the seller did imply the frogs would be fine in their cups for additional time. In that respect i was not "at fault" or "wrong" because i was trusting the seller's word. But add indicated here by some replies, I guess seller's can't be trusted. Maybe some are just more interested in the sale than the animals well being.

To clear any doubts regarding the shipping box, here it is. Only the address is blanked out for privacy of both parties. I also wrote numbers 1 through 4 on the sides so there can't be any doubt that you're seeing each side.

Here's a close up of the label with Pat's name, so there's no doubt this actually is the box these animals were shipped in. Only the addresses are covered, again for privacy of both parties. Also pictures oof the packing materials. Unless I'm also wrong about this, I thought they were well packed.

I consider removing from the deli cups and placing into a quarantine enclosure to be part of the unboxing process, to be clear, Nicole.

I also would not blanket assume sellers can't be trusted just because you had one less-than-stellar experience and a few people on this thread disagree with your assessment of things.

To be honest, I do think there is a reasonable expectation of research and knowledge that goes in hand before making a purchase, especially online. I am not saying this to criticize you, but more to make sure you understand my position: I think that while some blame lies on Mr. Kline, I think a majority of this could have been prevented if you had done more research on the shipping process, or asked more questions about it. I stand by my belief that it was not insurmountable to assume that you didn't know much about shipping frogs, based on your questions. But it does fall on you to ask the questions in the first place.

In the end, he answered what you asked, though - and expecting more than that is not really fair. Mistakes happen, and we must learn from them. He without flaw can cast the first stone. You didn't know better: now you do. He didn't realize you didn't know much about shipping frogs: now he does, for better or worse.

I'm still reticent to label Mr. Kline a bad guy. I think there were some steps of mishandling that went into this incident, and that goes on both sides of things, and unfortunately your little frog paid the price.

You opened this as an information thread and I think that's the right way to handle it.

After reading this review I must say you are completely in the wrong. The frogs died because of your miss handling. Think of it this way, if he had kept the frogs they would still be alive. Also, I personally picked up on you being snarky before him. The best thing for you to do is to accept responsibility, down to your core and grow from it. It will make you a better person and keeper. You could also remove your review.


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You can clearly see in the pic the towels were in need of being changed, the animal probably toxed out from ammonia build up. At shows we change the towel at least once, sometimes more.

Im sorry but we can not be responsible for your delivery system and whom and when is there. It is common sense that you want the animal to spend as little time in the box as possible, no matter WHAT the species is (frogs being more sensitive).

Please use this as a learning experience for you next time you purchase from someone, not going to be me for the record.

You $9 has been refunded for your reed frog.

Originally Posted by caffeinecynic

If you have a customer who has a FedEx guaranteed delivery by 4:30, not 10:30, what is your policy on that? Would that have changed anything here? Do you not ship to them? Or...?

This question is serious and not intended to be an attack. I don't keep frogs, and I am given to understand they are quite fragile indeed, but what is confusing me is why anyone would ship them at all if they are prone to dying in transit for a holdover of 8 hours? What happens if there's a FedEx delay and they end up in one of the sort centers an extra day, as sometimes happens? Is it standard that if this happens, it's just... welp, bad luck?

I really do want to know how this is handled in the frog community.

I'm also interested in an answer to this question as I had a snake end up being shipped Monday evening and arriving Wednesday morning; the delay was 100% FedEx's fault as the pallet for the overnight/express packages was accidentally put into the back of a truck instead of onto an airplane.

If there is a fedex delay, we still up hold out live arrival guarantee to the customer because it is no their fault the box was delayed.

For the record SHE has been refunded

I will start by saying, I have never shipped (or even own) a Reed frog. I have however shipped 1000's of frog and toads in bulk. I had one issue this summer when it took 3 days to deliver, I'm confident it was heat that killed some. I've had several shipments take more than a day, never had an issue with them.

I sell NA toads/frogs for feeders for hognoses, Pat and I aren't competitors by any means. My point is, I don't think an extra 8,9,10 hours in the cup on her end, killed the frog. Did it sit in the deli cup for 8,9,10 hours before being boxed up, who knows? I now direct you back up to my opening comment.

Now I would like to say, $9.00 REALLY?

Let me clarify the "$9.00 REALLY", it has nothing to do with his prices. It was more about what a measly $9.00 has caused.