This is a very long post and will highlight why I believe that Clint Billingsley is a liar, thief and all around bad guy... I know that there are definitely things that I couldve done differently, but the real jist of the story is that Clint Billingsley currently owes me $1,500 and does not even feel the need to respond or to try and resolve this... I sent the snake around 2 weeks before the 2007 Daytona Expo and the deal has still not been resolved...
I set up a deal with Clint Billingsley where he purchased a Crystal Ball Python male for $10,000... If done on the first week of the deal he was going to send me an Ivory male for $2,000 off the price. He could not get the Ivory in his possession so I told him I wanted the cash instead. We worked a deal where I would drive the snake to Daytona and hand it to him once it was paid in full... This was my last Crystal male and I did not want to ship him and told him that I only wanted to deliver it in person and he would have to take responsibility if he wanted it shipped. He agreed and then contacted Jay at Prehistoric Pets who told him how shipping generally is done (which I knew, but wanted to deliver him personally as per our agreement). Clint then let me know that I needed paperwork and that it was illegal to deliver it to him in Florida (he did offer that I drive it directly to Atlanta as opposed to meeting me near the border which was the first signof what a nice guy he is) and let me know how things are generally done even though he agreed to have it delivered in person (now knowing it would be much harder to get away without paying in person)... So I agreed to take responsibility and ship it and would refund his money if the snake did not arrive live. At this point he had paid $6,800 ($1,000 to Kollowitz, $800 to Daytona Hilton and the rest into my bank account), was a pleasure to talk to, and always made his payments on time, so I decided he could send me $1,200 before I shipped and the final $2,000 once the snake was safe in his hands. This he agreed to and then before I shipped the snake he never deposited the $1,200 into my account... Since he was a seemingly cool guy I still shipped the snake to him... The next day, I recieved a $1,200 payment, not the $3,200 that he agreed to send me... From this point on he became the most deceiptful, unreliable, lying low-life that I have ever done business with... He told me he would put $1,000 into my account so I could get it on my way to Daytona... Of course he did not do this and then said that he would give it to me in Daytona. I was working to get a yearling Pastel Ivory so I left Clint a message telling him he could just go by the Bell's table and pay them... He then left the show and told me that his fire alarm in Atlanta went off so he had to immediately leave the show without contacting me and drive 9 hours to check on his house??? He did leave the show with a Latte male from Amir as opposed to an Ivory male and he told me that he did not spend my money on the more expensive Latte, that Amir felt bad for taking so long on the Ivory that he just gave it to him for the same price... He then said he would put money into my account so I could have access to it for the drive home. Of course on the drive home he did not put anything into my account...
Now I am constantly trying to get him to send me money and he is asking me questions like "How could you have spent the money I gave you so fast?", "What do you spend your money on?" and even continued bringing up how the Ivory male was supposed to be part of the deal and that I was changing the deal and screwed him... I then let him know that since he paid nothing additional for the Latte male (just another one of his string of lies) then why not send me the male... Of course I got nothing...
Now I do have to say that he did offer to send me 2.2 Pinstripes that I could wholesale out for the $2,000 debt... At this point I didnt trust him and wondered what my liabilites were if he sent me skinny animals that my guy didnt want to buy, why I had to go to this trouble to get the $2,000 (nothing more for my troubles) he owed me, and why he couldnt move them himself and pay me... At least at that point he acted like he was going to resolve it and even said that he had $2,000 credit with Amir that he wanted to give me, but I never called Amir back (Amir called, but I did not get a message regarding what)...
I also had Clints friend Anthony Mccain asking Jon Levy the same sort of questions that Clint was asking me about my life which got under my skin and got me to send a negative email to Clint...
Then when I was at Anaheim, I was informed of another situation where he owes another breeder a very large amount of money (have not recieved a reply as to wether I can mention his name)... I know that he has sold offspring from this breeders male and has not paid him anything... This led me to sending him one of probably quite a few emails saying that I want my money and that he is a lying theif, etc... Nothing much worse than that but even though he is what he is, didnt like hearing it and responded telling me about how these were fighting words and he has 9% body fat and "plenty of experience with ugly"...
This is not my situation and I only brought it up since it is the reason I did send Clint another very negative email. I'll let this breeder decide if he wants to verify what I said, but to hear Clints own twisted logic as to why he can bounce a check (even lies in the email about paying 1/3 when he gave a bad check for the 1/3) and rip-off another breeder is amazing... I will block out the breeders name from Clints response email if he chooses not to come here.
Its been so long and drawn out that I am not sure how many times after this Clint lied to me about payments... I do know that on October 26th he did deposit $500 into my account. After that he continually lied about making payments if he responded at all... He tells me that he is broke as hell even though he is building a snake room (which I assume costs money). I had one of his customers call me and tell me that he did a cash/trade deal with Clint and that Clint had told him that he was paying me off (I have not recieved a reply about wether I could post his name), but then Clint told me that he did not get any cash and that it was a straight trade and that he hasnt sold any animals this year...
Then finally around a month or so ago I was contacted by Corey Woods in Canada... He was asking if Clint had settled his debt with me and I had told him he had not... He then let me know that Clint was contacting him trying to get Corey to send him animals to be paid for after Clint recieved them. This might actually be a standard way of business of trying to rip people off.
I have been emailing, texting, calling with next to no responses and trying everything I can to settle the debt letting him know that I do not want to go public and keep our deal out of the BOI... I have even asked what animals he could send me that I could sell (after he mentioned it) and still got no response...
I cant say that I have handled everything in this situation perfectly and it is hard for me to remain cool when someone is straight ripping me off... This has changed how I do business and because of people like Clint, I will not send out a snake before its paid for... If I cannot get my cash at least this is an oppurtunity for everyone to see what type of low-life, theiving scumbag that Clint Billingsley is...
Here are some random emails....
Where he states that he will pay me when he recieves the snakes...
Tom,
I called the Hilton in Daytona and gave them your reservation no. and made the payment in full for the room. dates are aug 16-20. total was $839.25. That totals $1,000 to Brian k, $5,000 deposit to Bank of america acct, $839.25 for hotel: leaving a balance of $3,160.75. I can deposit another $1,160.75 into your BAnk of america account which leaves a balance of $2,000. on the crystal. Then if you ship on tuesday(or wed) i can deposit the other 2k after he arrives. If that works?
sincerely,
cllint billingsley
Here is his response once he has the snake and starts talking about the Ivory and how he will try and pay me...
Tom,
No problem, glad i got ahold of you for a minute at least to let you know everything was looking good. I have to admit, i was very nervous myself. I have never been so relieved to pull a snake out of a bag. Oddly enough, he was a little cold. His tongue was flicking in and out, so i figured he wasnt too cold. I can wait til he sheds.
I went by the Bank and deposited $1,160. (remainder on the 8k...as we were originally adding the Ivory on trade) plus another $80. for shipping. That leaves 2k or the Ivory. Let me look at my finances, i will try and just give you the 2k . I am sorry this Ivory/cash wasnt resolved by now on my end. Amir has jerked me around on this, telling me he had the snake and then it isnt even born yet. To top it off, i had only paid him $2,500. toward the ivory so i had to give him another $500. to complete the deal. Doesnt that suck? i may ask him to refund my $500.
give me a call when you get a chance.
clint
Here is one of the negative emails I sent him...
Clint,
I talked to Jon Levy and he said he would accept 2.2 Pinstripes for $2,000... My problem is this creates a whole new added headache for me... Now I have to pick up these Pinstripes at the airport, drive to meet Jon, assume all goes well and that Jons money is instantly available and most importantly that these snakes are acceptable by Jon... What if problems arise that are out of my control? What if he thinks the snakes look thin, stressed, or sickly and does not want them? I also feel a little bit funny about having to accept trade and go through basically another whole deal for the exact amount of money that shouldve been in my hands two weeks ago... What is my new liability in this? Am I to be compensated in anyway other than the money that I should already have?
Jon also talked to Anthony today and Anthony was inquiring about my spending habits and why I need money... This is absolutely none of yours or Anthonies business! I personally dont know how you can justify even wondering how I spend my money when you did not pay me money that you agreed to pay when the Crystal arrived... It would be different if I owed you $2,000, but I donot owe you anything and have lived up to everything I have said since we have started... You never once mentioned that you would be sending only the $1,200 that you were supposed to send before the Crystal was even shipped... The people I have told cannot believe this situation and call me a dumbshit for sending out a snake before payment... That is what I get I guess? This is after we both have talked negatively about the situation Amir put you in with the Ivory and somehow that is now effecting me.
I would accept the Latte male or $2,000 cash for the remainder and feel that I at least got my cash or feel that I was very well compensated for the situation that I was put into (not having my money and basically be left standing cold 3 times where I was told I would have my money)... If I will have to take the Pinstripes, I guess that is the wall I am backed into... I really just want this situation to be over with and am saddened that the sale of my last Crystal male turned out to be a negative experience.
I have to admit it kinda burns me up having people inquire about my life when all I have done was send out one of the most rare and beautiful snakes before it was paid in full and trusting in someone to do what he said he would do...
Tom
His response...
Tom,
AS for the pins, i was trying to create an immediate solution. Since that doesnt work for you forget it.As for discussing your business, WHAT THE F#$%? I mentioned to anthony you were trying to purchase a pastel Ivory. I think it is a cool snake and an exciting purchase. is that classified? did i do something wrong? I am sorry this has turned out badly for you, I feel the same. I learned a lesson as well, in the future i will never change any part of a deal, if its cash and trade then that is how it will go down. I wil get you the$2,000. cash as soon as possbile.
clint
My response...
Clint,
I understand about the immediate solution with the Pins, but it would not be fair to me after all that has already transpired and could add some problems.... I dont understand how you can have those Pins for two weeks and not contact or post them or get them sold they way I did in one day with Jon... I also dont know how sending me the Latte would be an issue if you didnt spend any money on it more than what was owed to you on the Ivory... I also cannot believe Amir would sell you the Latte male for the same price as the Ivory? I'm pretty sure you have bought more snakes than I have and produced more snakes than I have, yet you dont have the contacts to wholesale or cheaply move snakes to pay off debt that you forced upon someone?
As far as the Pastel Ivory goes, no you did nothing wrong.... As soon as it has eaten here and is in my hands I will be posting it myself bragging about it.... The fact that Anthony was asking Jon the exact same thing you were asking me is what I feel is rude... What did I do with my money? How can I not have money after you paid me $8,000? To me even being asked that was out of line... The only reason that I need money that you should be worried about is the snake in your rack that you have... You said you would pay me in full once you recieved the snake... YOU decided that you dont need to do that... You also decided to give me 3 other times to accept the payment which you decided was not in your best interest to pay. You didnt feel the need to notify me, or even contact me when we are in the same building. You listened me tell you the great lengths I was going to ship you the snake, the 2 hour drives to San Diego two days in a row, yet you never once thought to mention that you didnt have the money?
As far as changing part of the deal with trade? How did you change any part of the deal? When we set-up the trade it was said that the Ivory has to be in my hands the Monday - Wednesday of the first week we started the deal... You still do not have the Ivory and it is over a month later... So what exactly are you talking about that was changed? Making me take the Ivory over a month after it was supposed to be here?
When is ASAP? A week a month? Just to remind you... You have the snake... You have lied to me about 3 seperate times that I was supposed to receieve my money (not including that you were supposed to pay in full on the receipt of the snake)...
How long is this supposed to go on? If you dont have an answer maybe we will work it out on the BOI and people can see this taken care of publicly. I have seen too many threads about people being lied to about payment dates, etc... and its funny that I am in the situation now.
I am pretty much over stressing on this situation... I just want it resolved and I really hope this can be done quickly and privately before the end of next week. The balls in your court!
Tom
His response...
Tom,
every time you email me it gets worse and worse. I offered a solution with the pins, you said that might work then you blast me about some potential problems, thats you choice and fine. then you offer to take a $6,000. snake for 2k, as fair. you could have taken the latte with a trade back or anything that was fair but you just wanted it for free basically, You want to talk about TELLING LIES??? how about when you told me the crystal was being shipped on MOn. then Tues. Then wed???? YOu want to know what stress is? how about giving someone 8K not on a credit card so there is no refund and the guy doesnt ship and doesnt call??? how about spending my money before the crystal arrived safely incase you had to give me a refund??? now thats fucked up!!!! THEN you tell me you need the 2k to give kim bell a deposit on the pastel IVory, thats a lie too right?
Please dont keep emailing me, i will work out sellling the trade part of our deal and get you paid. Sorry were both unhappy with this deal, we both have learned lessons. lets not make this any worse than it already is.
clint
Another negative email to Clint...
Clint,
You did not respond to my last email regarding trade and since I am not a mind reader, I had no idea that you were waiting for the Super Pastels to be born... If the Ivory trade was not done on the first three days of our deal (Mon-Wed) there was going to be no Ivory in the deal... I dont know if you think I'm stupid or maybe your a little slow, but I dont understand how you can ever even bring that up... I shipped you a snake before it was paid in full and you told me that you would put the money in my account after receiving the snake.... You have lied on so many occasions to me personally that it is downright amazing... How many times again were you putting money in my account? How was your fire alarm that you had to rush home from Daytona to check with your new Latte male that you paid no extra cash for? Your telling me your unhappy with this purchase? You are laughable....
Are there any other high-end projects that you are involved in that you have not paid for?
I want this to be over and done with... I can care less what you think and basically my understanding is I could be waiting years for the cash... I'm sure your still acquiring/paying off/looking for animals while you have outstanding debt with at least two people... Do you have a partner? Does he know about this?
If you want to trade the Latte male for 2 Super Pastel females, then send me the Latte male now and I will get 2 Super Pastel females to you... You are definitely been untrustworthy to me and I do not know why I should wait any longer for your end of this deal to be done... I have done everything I said I will do, while we know that is not part of your MO...
If this is not adequate I need the money in my account in the next few days.... I want a resolution to this problem now or I will go public and post warnings and your information so that the next person can get paid in full before dealing with you...
Heres a photo of my Pastel Ivory that you accused me of lying about.... Remember you thought I had to lie to you about needing money to get a snake.... Hear that... Your so easy to deal with that you assume I have to be lying just to get money that has basically been taken from me... Its nice that I borrowed money to get this guy and now I have to figure out how to get more money because I worry about my debt... Weird huh?????
Tom
His response...
Tom,
You didnt borrow money for the pastel ivory. YOU GOT the CASH FROM ME!!! YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!!! You know.... money from the sale of the Crytal you couldnt sell for 10k cash to anyone for 4 months on Kingsnake!!!!!!!As always, I get a 2 page nasty threat letter from you. I offered to work things out with you via my credit with Amir (Ivory, latte, whatever). I offered you 2.2 pins to sell to John(your buddy who said yes). Every solution i came up with, you blasted me on. Why? 2k/ trade was part of the deal. Was the deal changed? yes. In part at least by you! Did you spend my money *8,000.00 before the snake was shipped , arrived alive, etc??? yes, you did. Now, did you say if he died in transit, you didnt have my money and couldnt replace him? yes, you did. Are any of these FACTS changing the deal? Definately!!!NOw,,,,could we still work it out? sure. but not with me giving you 2k in cash that i didnt have. That is simple math. Sorry the sale i had set up with Ian didnt work out. Why couldnt you just take the trade and sell it or trade it again for what you reallly wanted? ALSO....I see a latte on your Photbucket/kingsnake, PLEASE tell me that snake didnt come from Amir??????
Now on a personal note. Calling me a liar makes me want to resolve this in a personal mannner. If i lived near you we could do this, but maybe in daytona next year, huh? further, it makes me want to tell you to go screw yourself and not resolve anything!!!!Obviously, you were trash talking about me at the anaheim show???Talking about what i owe to anyone is none of your business. But if you are interested, the ONLY person in the whole ball python business i owe a dime is *********. I spent over 20k with him in 2 yrs. so he gave me a snake on a payment plan(1/3 DOWN). Unfortunately for both of us, the Cinnamon and pinstripe projects that i had invested with him on(notice the word investment) have been disastrous to say the least. The snake i purchased on a payment plan was supposed to be a limited project, He garunteed that to my face. I found out what the real deal was 3 months later!!!I called him up and asked him what the real deal was, and the "gossip" was true!! shit happens, I guess.I know #$%@ is a good guy, I will square up with him even if i get screwed on the deal. Funny thing too, #$%# didnt understand his own project, genitically speaking. I WONDER HOW YOU WILL FEEL IF THE CRYSTAL PROJECT IS NOT CODOMINANT LIKE YOU ARE TELLING EVERYONE????????????
As to your questions?1. yes i did email you accepting your offer. 2. no i dont have a partner. 3.Yes, I got a call about my fire alarm going off repeatedly from the person watching my house while standing in front of Greg Graziani's table after asking him about cell sorb. He might remember. check it out. 4. No i didnt accuse you of lying about getting the pastel / Ivory, you had 8k of cash from me why wouldnt you be able to pay for it? I admit i was confused about your story of having to borrow money from your family to get home from Daytona???? especially after, having 8k cash deposited to your bank account. But hey the Titty bars can be rough on a guy?
Finally, yes i had emailed you accepting the Latte/ trade for superpastels females/ balance wiped to zero deal. I have a record of sending it to you, sorry if you missed it. I also wanted to complete the Deal. I kinda think you have to actually hatch your superpastel female snakes that are part of the trade, but yeah im weird like that!!!And of course the male Latte is SWEET!! hes about 300 grams and mowing down food. Can you say this years Breeder.......But now what do we do? You insult me to the point where i want to fight(Im 6'2, 235, 9%bodyfat with plent of experience with ugly). You spread rumors about me? you talk about me? you slander me, after i have spent over $225,000 in this hobby? You talk to me like this after you got 8,000. in cash from me? Yeah, you guessed it f&*^ you on the Latte.
clint
He is definitely a BAD GUY and should be avoided... I hope noone else makes the same mistakes I have done and I highly recommend not sending out animals til they are paid in full...
I will also be the first to come and post when and if Clint ever decides to settle our debt... Until then I want everyone to know to avoid this low-life...
What steps are available now for me to try and collect what is owed to me?
Tom Baker
I will leave everything out except for what is needed...
Hybrid Mode
