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Lonely Hearts Club Forum Looking for someone with a common interest? Why not go where they hang out? Have fun, but not TOO much fun in here. ONLY members over 18 are welcome here.

View Poll Results: Do you believe in the death penalty?
Not under any circumstances 7 12.96%
Only when the victim is a child 0 0%
It is for the jury to decide 2 3.70%
Only in outstandingly cruel or horrible crimes 4 7.41%
exes, honey, fire ants 2 3.70%
If they hurt me or my family, they'd never get as far as the courtroom. 4 7.41%
Each case is different 0 0%
exes, elevators, cobras 0 0%
It's God's responsibility to judge 'em, it's our responsibility to arrange the meeting 5 9.26%
Fry 'em 30 55.56%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-11-2004, 11:35 AM   #41
llechler
Quote:
It's a harsh reality than some lives are indeed worth more than others.
Maybe in the eyes of the law, but not in my eyes. Every life is equal to me. Not one person's life is more valuable than the next.

Quote:
LWOP is simply just not a suitable punishment for many heinous crimes. A man who kidnaps, rapes, and brutally murders an eight year old girl does not deserve to live out a natural life at taxpayer expense.
As you can assume from my previous comments, I would have to disagree with this statement. I do believe LWOP is suitable for this man and he does not deserve death.

Quote:
A prisoner who is already sentenced to LWOP has nothing to fear. Should he murder a prison guard, so what? What are they going to do... give him another life sentence? That second life sentence was such a joke to him that he attempted to kill a second corrections officer.
This is a reality, but at the core of it all, I still believe we should not have the right to sentence someone else to death. Put him under better security, don't take the easy route and just kill him. It makes you no better than him.

Quote:
How about the recent case here in FL, where a career criminal ordered the savage massacre of an entire household of people simply because they had his x-box? One of the victims was beaten so badly that dental records were of no use in identifying her body. After all six people were beaten to death, their bodies were mutilated after they were dead, and one of the female victims was sexually assaulted with a baseball bat.
That is very sad, and it will definitely pull at our emotions and heartstrings, but after all this man has done, does he still deserve to live? YES. He needs punishment, but that should not be in the form of death.

Quote:
Let's branch off with a tangent for just a moment, with a direct question for those who argue the death penalty is morally unacceptable on the grounds that killing is wrong....If faced with an attacker who was intent on either killing or causing grievous bodily harm to you or an immediate family member, would it be morally wrong to use deadly force in defense of yourself or a loved one?
I'm assuming this is directed at me....so.....here is my opinion....
As I have been stating throughout this thread, one of my core beliefs is that you should never cause suffering. I will break this senario into two circumstances. If someone were trying to kill me, I would most definitely try to defend myself, my life is precious, and I will not just lie down and die. However, no matter how much this guy is filled with the rage or intent to kill me, doesn't mean in my defense that I must kill him. I will try to incapacitate him, knock him out or something, but never intentially try to end his life, even though he trying to end mine. There is a line I must draw. Yes, I will protect my own life, but that doesn't mean I have to end his.

Now, in the second senario, a man is trying to kill an immediate family member or a loved one. What do I do then? I follow the same path, trying to protect them and myself, but never intentially trying to kill the advancer. Why seek the killing of another life just because he seeks to kill you? Doesn't make sense to me. Incapasitate him and let the law deal with his actions. If it came right down to it, however, I would most definitely sacrafice my life for a loved one or family member, as I believe sacraficing ones life for another's is one of the most honorable ways to die.
 
Old 09-11-2004, 12:04 PM   #42
CAV
Linda I respect your conviction, although I disagree. :)

Quote:
I will try to incapacitate him, knock him out or something, but never intentially try to end his life, even though he trying to end mine.
Are you aware that in some states this could make you the criminal? FWIW, there have been many victims that ultimately had their lives ended by an "incapacitated" agressor. Just food for thought.
 
Old 09-11-2004, 12:10 PM   #43
llechler
Gary, What does FWIW mean? Can you elaborate on this: there have been many victims that ultimately had their lives ended by an "incapacitated" agressor.

But.....if I killed him, I would FRY if most of you had your way, right?
 
Old 09-11-2004, 12:29 PM   #44
CAV
FWIW = for what its worth

Merely wounding an attacker is a quick ticket to getting yourself killed. A wounded attacker is much more likely to escalate the lethality of his attack as opposed to ending it. If you plan on defending yourself, you have to accept the fact that you're gonna be forced to neutralize the threat, not merely incapacitate it.

Quote:
But.....if I killed him, I would FRY if most of you had your way, right?
Of course not. Self-defense is an acceptable action in the eyes of the law. Premeditated murder is something completely different.
 
Old 09-11-2004, 12:34 PM   #45
llechler
So you are saying that if someone is trying to hurt and/or kill you the only reasonable way to get out of being harmed is to kill the other person?

And also, you say in the name of self defense it is okay to kill someone, yet to incapasitate someone and tie them up for the cops and the law to deal with could get you in trouble? Why in the name of self defense is it okay to kill someone but not okay to hand them over to the law?
 
Old 09-11-2004, 05:15 PM   #46
bcfos
Ken great point you brought up. Personally I would have no problem dropping the person if they were about to cause me or someone close to me harm. Now if they did that to a couple of my ex's I might just slip them some money for a defence fund.
 
Old 09-11-2004, 09:23 PM   #47
Lucille
If you are SURE that person cannot harm you, you may leave him for the cops- however if he was coming after you to use deadly force, I would not get too comfie there. Plus, in Texas at least, if you wound or hurt someone you are expected, after you reach safety, to call for medical attention which you do not have to worry about if he is already dead.
I believe in Texas you may use deadly force for immediate self defense of life or serious injury both of self and family; and even after you have emptied your gun stop, reload, and pump a second round out. You do not have to call an ambulance I would not think if all the remains would fit into a baggie.
 
Old 09-11-2004, 09:34 PM   #48
llechler
wow. how to respond to that statement, lucille. I don't know. That's an interesting statement about laws in Texas, but the way you make it sound, maybe I'm taking it wrong, but it sounds like you'd rather kill the person so you wouldn't have to take the trouble to call an ambulance? It blows my mind.
 
Old 09-11-2004, 09:40 PM   #49
sirenofthestorm
lucille, good to know, since one of the two out of 7 siblings I actually like lives in houston. But he's definitely not the gun toting type. I'm pretty sure his massive size keeps most people at bay, lol.

But on a more serious note, I'm glad we're no longer using the "only one or two slip through the cracks" excuse anymore. That really blew my mind that THIRTEEN men in one state alone were innocent on death row. And Illinois isn't even known for putting large numbers of convicts on death row or throwing the switch quickly (to my knowledge).

Ok that being said, I love you all, can't we play nice now and agree to disagree? Or naughty, since this is a Lonely Hearts club and apparently we're all sexually oriented .

-Whit
 
Old 09-11-2004, 09:54 PM   #50
Lucille
What I am saying Linda is that if someone comes after my children with intent to murder, there will be very little left of them.
Those who know me, know I am generally a shy, gentle, helpful person. But I deserve to live and my kids do too. Back when I was young I took a self defense course that taught karate- my instructor as well as teaching the physical part taught concepts also. He said to walk away from every fight you could; but when it was time to fight, never hold back and fight to kill. I think he was wise and I took his words to heart.
Whit, tell more about your sibling lol.
 

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