Info Air Canada Cargo killed my gargoyle gecko :( - Page 3 - FaunaClassifieds
FaunaClassifieds  
 Sponsors »  Breeders | Dealers |  Importers/Exporters | Caging | Feed | Supplies | Services | Events 
  Inside FaunaClassifieds » Product Reviews |  Classifieds!   | Photo Gallery   | Banner Advertising 
 
  Want to help support this site? Click here.

Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - Business Forums > Canadian Board of Inquiry®

Notices

Canadian Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the Canadian herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-30-2018, 11:02 PM   #21
Browse4Reptiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSerio View Post
Oh then I take back that it was partial fault of the shipper. It's 100% the shipper's fault.

1. When the shipper books with ACC you tell the person it's a reptile and everyone I've dealt with on the phone has always asked about ensuring I am planes that have heated cargo areas. They don't book me flights unless each flight does. Even then I still add the appropriate heat packs.

2. Since I would have known this the proper packing job probably would have kept the lizard alive.

3. I'm still happy you got a refund because an ACC employee broke the law by tampering with your package. If that wasn't the case then it's on the shipper.

4. It really sucks you lost an animal at all.

The shipper did tell Air Canada Cargo while setting up the shipment that it was a reptile. Everyone has to legally. Within the Air Canada Cargo system, the shipment was also labeled as a cold blooded reptile. The box has the label required by the law that says cold blooded reptile/amphibian. It is clearly labeled on the box. I've said before I can send pictures of the package, I wouldn't mind at all. I still have the original shipping box left as it arrived minus the dead gecko for obvious hygienic reasons.

The Air Canada told both of us that both planes cargo (the only two flights) were temperature controlled at around room temperature. The first slightly colder than the last flight. That is what they said to the shipper and I in separate phone calls. I recorded this. This is why the shipper/breeder didn't pack better heating. Too much heat for gargoyles is fatal, more so than colder temperatures are. The temperatures gargoyles need are very close room temperature. With the information Air Canada gave us, she shouldn't have needed to pack heating for him at all. The gargoyle gecko was the temperature of something in my refrigerator on arrival. This temperature is not an exaggeration in any way. Like I've said before, it is possible that the shipper added ice cubes or ice water on departure, even if it is extremely unlikely.

Air Canada confirmed that Air Canada Cargo poked multiple holes and taped them, there is a lot of proof of this happening. All the proof was stated to me within one of the phone calls that I have recorded with the Air Canada representatives. I can release those phone calls after I figure out how to post audio. I'm pretty new to this site and am still learning how this site works. I'm not very tech savy. I also need to move them onto my computer from my phone. Once I have that figured out I would have no problem sharing the evidence I've collected even though I was very upset on the phone with them. It will probably be very embarrassing for me to let everyone hear me that upset. I get very embarrassed easily and I like to try and keep my emotions to myself even though I am a very emotional person. When it comes to animal safety my embarrassment doesn't matter to me and I'm prepared to let people hear what happened so they can make their own interpretations. I'd prefer to release my phone calls privately if people request them. I'll post the picture of the box soon publicly but I'll need to edit my personal information out of it. Technically the pictures would be altered. But I promise the only thing I'll alter is my information, not altering how the animal was packed. I think this picture would be helpful in this discussion. It's possible, maybe the Air Canada representative lied to me about the employee in cargo poking holes and taping them up after. But I can't see any reason why they would lie about that. If you have any possible reasons why they might lie to me please share.

I've had many other reptiles shipped to me before and the packing job seemed quite similar to the other times I've received gargoyles alive. One main difference that I haven't mentioned before is that she used a small critter keeper like box instead of the normal clear plastic with holes I normally see in shipments. The poked holes and tape on the outside of the box was also very different than what I normally see. I'm use to seeing one maybe two holes without tape covering them.

Regardless of who's at fault. The staff at Air Canada Cargo still were extremely unhelpful after the death and it was extremely unpleasant from a purchasers perspective to communicate with ACC. I was passed from multiple phone lines for at least 2 hours, told to call many irrelevant numbers and had to repeat what happened repetitively to many people. I was also sent to an inactive email address that I've never received a response from. I also have this recorded. The Air Canada representatives on the other hand were very understanding and sympathetic, they did not waist my time at all and were willing to find out the answers to my questions about the cause of death. I really appreciate how The Air Canada representative kept me informed in the investigation while still being appropriate and not releasing the poker/tapers name even though I wanted to speak to that employee directly at the time. Looking back, I'm glad I never got to tell that employee off. The poker/taper were trying to help the animal even though their intentions were misguided and were the cause of death according to the Air Canada rep. The Air Canada reps even even gave me sincere sounding apologies from two different representatives. This is just my opinion on their customer service based on this date only. My other experiences were average/satisfactory, nothing very noteworthy. The staff at Cargo that day of the geckos death might have been new or untrained, this is just a hypothesis I've had.

If it was the shippers fault I would like to know. I am open to other perspectives, but I am still convinced the majority of the mistakes where made by Air Canada Cargo based on the evidence I've collected. Maybe the shipper could have done a better job, maybe she could have gotten a poke proof box instead of the normal boxes used in these shipments. That still doesn't doesn't explain to me why the geckos temperature was refrigerator temperature on arrival. If those heating packs she packed can sometimes malfunction and get cold (refrigerator cold) then that is some information that would change my perspective a lot. I do not have any experience with the heating packs shes provided and if they can malfunction and get cold please let me know.

I'm glad you have had good experiences with ACC. I've had some alright experiences with ACC in the past. I'm hoping that this experience I had was the one of its kind. I'm sorry to hear you've lost a reptile in transit too .
 
Old 05-01-2018, 06:04 PM   #22
Andy_G
Fault lies on both ACC and the shipper. The shipper used improper heat packs, 100%. For a species that doesn't handle heat well, using not one but two 7 hour heat packs could've spiked the temp for the brief time they are actually active, caused a heat stroke or caused the death, and then afterwards things cooled down. There is zero question that the shipper has some fault and things were not done properly, be crystal clear on that...no hole whatsoever to feed oxygen to the improper heat packs, not good, and if the proper heat packs were used, the holes that were punched by the employee would probably not have been able to cause the death...that's only possible when the heat packs are exhausted and the temps drop. Saying that, the employee at ACC had no right to modify packaging and could have also contributed, but incorrect shipping practices is the chief issue here.

I am sorry this happened to you.
 
Old 05-01-2018, 06:47 PM   #23
Browse4Reptiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
Fault lies on both ACC and the shipper. The shipper used improper heat packs, 100%. For a species that doesn't handle heat well, using not one but two 7 hour heat packs could've spiked the temp for the brief time they are actually active, caused a heat stroke or caused the death, and then afterwards things cooled down. There is zero question that the shipper has some fault and things were not done properly, be crystal clear on that...no hole whatsoever to feed oxygen to the improper heat packs, not good, and if the proper heat packs were used, the holes that were punched by the employee would probably not have been able to cause the death...that's only possible when the heat packs are exhausted and the temps drop. Saying that, the employee at ACC had no right to modify packaging and could have also contributed, but incorrect shipping practices is the chief issue here.

I am sorry this happened to you.
Yes the gecko very well could have gotten heat stroke first. I wasn't aware that 7 hour heating could do that, this is the first time I've seen them with reptiles being shipped. Thank you for pointing that out. I had assumed that they didn't heat at all based on how cold the inside of the box was (fridge temperature). I do not know not if the shipper poked any holes. The Air Canada Cargo employee taped up all the holes on the box. Taping the holes seems to have sealed the fridge temperature air inside. The outside of the box was room temperature right off of the second plane. I was waiting at the airport as it arrived off the plane.
 
Old 05-01-2018, 07:24 PM   #24
Browse4Reptiles
Hypothetically, can a gargoyle gecko survive being put in a refrigerator for a while? I just assumed they couldn't survive that temperature. I thought they couldn't handle below 60 f/15.5 C. Most fridges are around 4 degrees C. I never measured the temperature of the gecko because I was too upset to think about that at the time. Looking back I wish I did. I remember the inside of the box felt like my fridge. The gecko felt like it had been in a refrigerator. I'm not the only person to hold the gecko during arrival and remember this. It's unlikely that we are both remembering that incorrectly. I just asked the other person to confirm and they also remember the inside of the box and the gecko being refrigerator temperature.
 

Join now to reply to this thread or open new ones for your questions & comments! FaunaClassifieds.com is the largest online community about Reptile & Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one classifieds service with thousands of ads to look for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE. Click Here to Register!

 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
George serg (Gecko Canada) rhac-er Canadian Board of Inquiry® 7 02-19-2015 01:41 PM
George serg (gecko canada rhac-er Canadian Board of Inquiry® 13 02-17-2015 09:48 PM
100 dogs in Canada killed after business slows SamanthaJane13 General BS forum 2 02-08-2011 09:37 PM
David Sheridan @ Crested Gecko Canada Mettle Canadian Board of Inquiry® 1 08-20-2008 01:55 PM
Air Canada Cargo?? entreprise_petsco Canadian Board of Inquiry® 5 03-02-2007 12:35 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 PM.




Ebates Coupons and Cash Back



TESTING!
Fauna Top Sites


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.04063392 seconds with 12 queries
Content copyrighted ©2002-2018, FaunaClassifieds, LLC