Smoothies

Um - ur...well, I'm not a genetics expert - but isn't it true that you DON'T have to use inbreeding to create the silkbacks in the first place? The leatherbacks imported from Italy are Co-doms. If you breed those Co-doms with a regular dragon, then you get 1/2 leatherbacks and 1/2 normals. Those leatherbacks are visible HETS for the super form - silkbacks. So basically you could have endless breeding lines (well, depending on how many regular dragons you have) going on for these leatherbacks. And then - you take take one of these Co-dom leatherbacks from ONE line and breed it with a Co-dom leatherback from ANOTHER line. And you get silkbacks. And look ma! No inbreeding!

So there you go. You can't make the argument for bad breeding anymore. If you do, then lets attack the ball python people with all their nasty pastels and super pastels, lol.

Jamie

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

It has been said to me a few times now that this is a natural occurence in the wild and while that may be so, these pitiful dragons aren't in the wild, so that arguement, in my book, is moot.
They are being put in a small enclosure and basically forced to mate. This is wrong.
I've been writing some different agencies about this and hopefully this can be stopped. I realize that the U.S. don't really have alot of regulations when it comes to reptiles, especially the care and ethical threatment of them but there may be something. Too bad we weren't more like Austria. In Austria - you, your animals and their enclosures are inspected yearly. If something isn't right, you are fined and then if still not fixed, the bearded dragon is removed from your care. I can't see a place like that allowing something like this.

Are you serious? I mean really? You're SERIOUS??? You are writing to people to try to ban the captive breeding of reptiles? Because that is what it SOUNDS like you said. Once we allow the government to start regulating when/how/ and what we breed, do you really think they will stop there? You are just ASKING for trouble. I don't want to be in one of those countries than decide to ban these animals all together just because there are too many percieved "problems" with their keeping and breeding.

As for being forced to mate...lets go ahead and ban dog breeding, horse breeding, fish breeding, cows, sheep, chickens, anything else than this countries allows "forced" breeding of. You're not by chance a democrat are you? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Now as far as breeding businesses being inspected for quality and proper care, sure, I'd go for that. As far as the goverment going into people's homes - oh, I so don't even want to go down that path!

Jamie

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

If ANYONES colony, or even PET dragons have the adenovirus. THEY SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING.

Man, Us Ball Python people would be Strung up and Hung, then drawn and Quartered. Sewn back together, only to be dragged at 90mph across a freeway with somone squeezing Lemon Juice into the Wounds, if we were to continue Selling Animals that carried a virus. IBD anyone? Maybe not so drastic, but DANG. Enough is Enough!

Just like the Scaleless ball pythons, and how so many are against it, why on EARTH should people be breeding and selling Dragons with no scales? Its all wrong....

As long as we are going down the path or judging people, lets go ahead and judge ALL animal breeders. I'd like to kick the inventor of dachsunds in the butt. My poor little stumpy-legged dog has such a hard time going up stairs, and she looks like she is in the process of developing back problems. I mean, what kind of an existence is that? Who is the MONSTER that created this biological mess? It's just wrong, plain WRONG!!!

Jamie

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Are you serious? I mean really? You're SERIOUS??? You are writing to people to try to ban the captive breeding of reptiles? Because that is what it SOUNDS like you said. Once we allow the government to start regulating when/how/ and what we breed, do you really think they will stop there? You are just ASKING for trouble. I don't want to be in one of those countries than decide to ban these animals all together just because there are too many percieved "problems" with their keeping and breeding.

As for being forced to mate...lets go ahead and ban dog breeding, horse breeding, fish breeding, cows, sheep, chickens, anything else than this countries allows "forced" breeding of. You're not by chance a democrat are you? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Now as far as breeding businesses being inspected for quality and proper care, sure, I'd go for that. As far as the goverment going into people's homes - oh, I so don't even want to go down that path!

Jamie

I no way said anything like that. The word "agencies" doesn't only apply to governmental agencies. And where the heck did you get the word BAN from?
As for dogs, cats and horses.....do we not have a never ending supply of those? Where are you going to get a fresh supply of bearded dragons when you've made our captive breds extinct from Adeno and inbreeding?
Also, you can't compare dogs and cat's to bearded dragons...you just can't. Please, stop doing that. We are talking about a species of animal that has only been in captivity for a very short time versus the dog, cat and even horse.
If the creation of these silkbacks happened to make the species stronger and more healthy, I think more people would be for it but the opposite is true and shouldn't be allowed. If people won't voluntarily do what's right, I'm all for enforcement....and NO I am not a Democrat.

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

....and NO I am not a Democrat.

Well, at least we agree on one thing, lol!

Jamie

Most species you can get wild caught and purify the genes. With dragons the chances of doing this are gone. So why would anyone want to continue breeding this way and not try something to preserve the species?

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

As long as we are going down the path or judging people, lets go ahead and judge ALL animal breeders. I'd like to kick the inventor of dachsunds in the butt. My poor little stumpy-legged dog has such a hard time going up stairs, and she looks like she is in the process of developing back problems. I mean, what kind of an existence is that? Who is the MONSTER that created this biological mess? It's just wrong, plain WRONG!!!

Jamie

you really dont read posts do you???? did i say ALL breeders go about these things wrong??? where?? Did i say ALL types of breeding are bad? actually, i think in a few posts back, i even MENTIONED there is a RIGHT way to line breed and there is a wrong way.... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Um - ur...well, I'm not a genetics expert - but isn't it true that you DON'T have to use inbreeding to create the silkbacks in the first place? The leatherbacks imported from Italy are Co-doms. If you breed those Co-doms with a regular dragon, then you get 1/2 leatherbacks and 1/2 normals. Those leatherbacks are visible HETS for the super form - silkbacks. So basically you could have endless breeding lines (well, depending on how many regular dragons you have) going on for these leatherbacks. And then - you take take one of these Co-dom leatherbacks from ONE line and breed it with a Co-dom leatherback from ANOTHER line. And you get silkbacks. And look ma! No inbreeding!

So there you go. You can't make the argument for bad breeding anymore. If you do, then lets attack the ball python people with all their nasty pastels and super pastels, lol.

Jamie

Jamie a question and just a question

Do you know and are you friends with Vicki Dachiu ?

Seems like another spokesperson has stepped up JMO

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

you really dont read posts do you???? did i say ALL breeders go about these things wrong??? where?? Did i say ALL types of breeding are bad? actually, i think in a few posts back, i even MENTIONED there is a RIGHT way to line breed and there is a wrong way.... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

if that was intended as an Agreement post, i got confused... Now that i reread it... i guess IM the one not reading posts! Or at least the tone of them.... *headdesk*

Nevermind. Now that i see other posts, i think that might be sarcasm in there.. If that is the case, my first post stands. If it is not, well then, sorry you dont agree eh?

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Um - ur...well, I'm not a genetics expert - but isn't it true that you DON'T have to use inbreeding to create the silkbacks in the first place? The leatherbacks imported from Italy are Co-doms. If you breed those Co-doms with a regular dragon, then you get 1/2 leatherbacks and 1/2 normals. Those leatherbacks are visible HETS for the super form - silkbacks. So basically you could have endless breeding lines (well, depending on how many regular dragons you have) going on for these leatherbacks. And then - you take take one of these Co-dom leatherbacks from ONE line and breed it with a Co-dom leatherback from ANOTHER line. And you get silkbacks. And look ma! No inbreeding!

I have absolutely no knowledge of BD genetics, but I'd like to know if this statement is true. Can anyone confirm or refute this statement?