Allowing scammers and thieves to stay on Fauna!

once again how many breeders here that have to compete with the scammers undercutting and bringing down market values set by supply and demand.

i think the problem here is you people arnt looking at the whole picture. your so focused on the boi and and mods and forum rules which is fine but they do not represent the whole picture nor do minor issue therein supersede the need for regulating. im all for a free market but as it stands now its very hard to get justice if your ripped off. especially if you buy a snake form out of state. to take them to court you have to go to the state in which the animal came from if they decide to fight it

Originally Posted by rodneynboalich

once again how many breeders here that have to compete with the scammers undercutting and bringing down market values set by supply and demand.

i think the problem here is you people arnt looking at the whole picture. your so focused on the boi and and mods and forum rules which is fine but they do not represent the whole picture nor do minor issue therein supersede the need for regulating. im all for a free market but as it stands now its very hard to get justice if your ripped off. especially if you buy a snake form out of state. to take them to court you have to go to the state in which the animal came from if they decide to fight it

This is the reason that I prefer to do things face to face. I get to see EXACTLY what I am buying. If you could also hit that little button called spell check, that might help you get YOUR point across. Not saying I am perfect, but aleast you can understand my post. Just sayin!

Originally Posted by rodneynboalich

once again how many breeders here that have to compete with the scammers undercutting and bringing down market values set by supply and demand.

In all seriousness, I don't understand what you are getting at. The scammers can't bring down the market price if they are scamming. If someone wants to pay rock bottom from a no-name, aren't they bringing the market down?

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Rodney, you've already pointed out that you disagree with some of the constraints on this site (regarding your ability to express yourself)...but I'm going to suggest that you put some effort into abiding by our rules. This is a privately owned site, and members are subject to the terms and conditions in place; so waving the Bill of Rights around to justify your freedom of speech/expression simply doesn't work.

As far as your stance that we should be weeding people out for various practices - this has been addressed many times over. First and foremost, we are not going to serve as judge and jury on such matters. What is brought to the BOI is often one sided; and, if it isn't, the two sides frequently give different accounts of what happened. You want people with no intimate knowledge of the situation to take one person's side, and remove another person from this site? How many times have we seen questionable, petty, or flat out fabricated complaints brought against a seller (or buyer)? How many BOI posts are essentially one hit wonders - in which a buyer comes in & blasts somebody over some slight (real or perceived), but leaves out the fact that they were fully compensated by the seller...or the buyer fails to come back and update when the situation has been resolved?
Besides, us taking the stance that we will remove anybody shown not to have acceptable business practices would lead to an expectation that anybody advertising here is safe to deal with. Sorry, but a seller's reputation is only as good as his last documented transaction. "Good Guys" can screw people over, "Bad Guys" can provide healthy animals and acceptable customer service....heck, known "Bad Guys" can make good on problems, turn over a new leaf, and become "Good Guys" - it's happened. What are we to do in that case? What would be the process for reinstating somebody? Does making good on a particular transaction mean that the person won't screw up again? By the same token, does a person with an extensive (positive) history deserve to be banned because he feels an issue is not his fault & refuses to yield to the demands of a customer?


As far as the undercutting, sure, SOME scammers use the too good to be true pricing; but not all of them. If you want to talk about the economics and market pricing, there is a thread in the BP forum that includes a few "articles" by Colin Weaver (it should be required reading, lol). http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=278912

i agree with what you said except about the swearing. i completely under the horrible position it puts you in to have to make a call to ban someone for being a scammer. and i realize how much crap there is in the boi and you cant just base it on that.

but answer this question please

if someone that has a history of that behavior ie big daddy do you think he should have been ban instead of being allowed to rip people off for all those years.

you have created a medium for buying and selling. it was of your own volition. no one forced you to create this. when you create something you are responsible for it and i realize yu cant control how people choose to react to , or us it to facilitate it for their own personal gain or misuse it. all the people that have got ripped off on fauna is in no way directly your fault but without fauna it wouldnt have happened. so do you fell no need to regulate it a little more.

too be fair im guessing you would be more than happy to take credit for all the good that has came from fauna and rightly so but shouldnt you also at least recognize the negative as well

i know your a lot smarter then most of the people that post and i see when your trying to be fair and people think your being bias simply because your not taking their side

so if you create something that brings about a negative impact (even a small one such as a few scammers) is it your responsibility to correct the problem or should you wash your hands of it

Originally Posted by rodneynboalich

once again how many breeders here that have to compete with the scammers undercutting and bringing down market values set by supply and demand.

I hate to tell you this, Rodney, but most of the undercutting and dropping of market values is done by real people selling real animals.

Originally Posted by Focal X

I'm going to save the retalitory remarks because you're way too easy. Glad you kept this a civil conversation! BTW, don't you have your own bad guy thread?




You said the same person keeps getting scammed over and over. It's their fault!!! I can find 100 people on here that I KNOW would never scam me. He's a scammer magnet for being cheap, you said it yourself:





I'm still trying to decipher yours



Ok you're starting to get it ...



... AND YOU LOST IT!

Maybe, since they can't ban scammers, they can watch them like a hawk and give them infractions for breaking rules until they are banned




You probably will not see this, but you JUST proved my point.

They always find the BOI when something goes wrong, but never beforehand.



You can leave this question unanswered, as I am sure you will, but how did you find the link to this thread? It wasn't immediately following that long, off topic rant in a random BOI thread that you posted in, was it? You know, that "S**T" you speak of

this is my last post then i have to go ill check it out later
first your shifting the blame for immoral business practices on the buyer which is. and i didnt say they are always getting scammed. i said they have th most potential being new to the industry and they usually get scammed.


i didnt just prove your point you missed mine. my point is the mods are in a position whether they like it or not to do something about whats going on. its not completely out off control.

yes i have my own boi bad guy thread. its a joke fell free to read. and for the s**t on the boi the mod just agreed with me about all the junk on there. and yes i have contributed to the s**t and clearly so have you.

nick i would love to hear your opinions on what i said about the negative impact on the industry regrading scamming and price drops and so on and dont tell me to go look at another thread. we are talking about banning scammers and they do affect prices so that question belongs heres

Originally Posted by hhmoore

I hate to tell you this, Rodney, but most of the undercutting and dropping of market values is done by real people selling real animals.

i know and another problem is that people buy a snake and three years later when they breed it get mad that they cant sell the babies for what they paid three years ago

Rodney, So let's just say we all agree and scammers shouldn't be on here. That we weed them all out. So where do we start and who makes that call?

Who is going to be responsible if we weed out a honest person or miss a bad guy?

Who interprets correct business standards? Do we eliminated everyone we disagree with their return policy? Can you find a dozen "good guys" that agree on a set of standards? If you can, I think you also can find another who disagree with them.

The term "scammer" itself is very subjective. Do we just use it for this purpose for people who don't send product or animals? Or do we include people who don't honor a return? How do you prove they didn't honor the policy without a shadow of doubt?

It isn't such a cut and dry statement to state we should eliminated all scammers, liars and thieves.

Then you have to take into account the liability issue of a site who states they are removing "scammers". Sites operate under different rules that best protect themselves while catering to the needs of those that use their services. Some don't pay much attention to the legalities and some do.
But for most they operate under some framework to protect from liability.

Here people are allowed to post their experiences and information on the BOI and are accountable for their statements. Each individual makes those statements not the site. The site doesn't pronounce guilt. The individual readers give each post the weight they feel it deserves.

If it didn't work that way and the site was held accountable for what others do, nobody would have the ability to posts their experiences because the owner isn't going to accept that responsibility.

The site is able to give you the ability to post a BOI thread because we don't make those judgment calls of who is telling the truth and pronouncing guilt.
The readers and individual posters do that.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

We have not been, are not now, and are not going to be judges in matters of how people or businesses conduct themselves in their own affairs. The BOI is a BOARD of Inquiry composed of all interested persons, such as yourselves, who will read whatever information is provided, and make their own decisions about what they are reading. We are NOT going to classify anyone as being innocent or guilty of any incident involving how they do business. Period.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

As for posting classified ads, again, no, it is not our job to determine whether or not you should buy from someone. That is YOUR job using the tools provided here for you to be able to make a well informed decision. We are NOT going to decide who is or is not qualified to post ads here based on any criteria whatsoever. It is your job to research the sellers adequately and sufficiently to make your own decisions about what to do. For us to do otherwise would likely be an extraordinarily stupid thing for me to do, in that by implication, I would be placing myself in legal jeopardy by making the implied assurance that all sellers here ARE guaranteed to be qualified to do business with based on the fact that they ARE selling here. That just is not going to happen, because it CAN'T realistically happen.

___________________________________

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

The bolded was unnecessary. Nick took the time, patience and was SPOT ON explaining why the BGs shouldn't be banned. None of us are our neighbor's keeper to the extent that we can keep them from stumbling all the time. Each member is responsible for their own research and they have the capacity to ask a Mod for advice searching if necessary.

Those that don't know of the BOI soon learn.

Yes, and that got Rodney pushed over the edge with infraction points and banned here temporarily.

Sorry, but no, and I've stated this MANY times over the years, we are not going to act as judges in incidents that we do not have any personal knowledge of. EVERYTHING is hearsay, when it comes right down to it. A person industrious enough can counterfeit any evidence that they care to. And certainly some do. Many get caught out, to their own detriment, but staff here is certainly not going to take on the burden and responsibility of spending our time and efforts to try to verify everything everyone posts in the BOI. We are NOT going to be judges in such matters. That is completely up to the readership to make up their own minds based on the opinions they form based on the evidence (real or otherwise) presented.

I'm sure some people would love to live in a world that is completely rubber baby buggy bumpered from one end to the next, top to bottom, but THIS site is just not that place. Members can swing a pretty sharp sword in the BOI, but soon learn that the blade certainly can cut both ways if their aim is not true.