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Preparedness & Self-Reliance Forum Survivalism, Livestock, Preparedness, Self Reliant Homesteading, Individual Liberty

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Old 12-23-2015, 08:50 PM   #11
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftingDreams View Post

I have kids.. they are my first and for most priority. I have to make sure the have what they need to survive..
Medical care. Ongoing food after the canned saved food runs out. Protection from those that would do them harm- real protection.
It is difficult to see how that could happen without a group situation.
 
Old 12-23-2015, 11:21 PM   #12
CraftingDreams
Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
Medical care. Ongoing food after the canned saved food runs out. Protection from those that would do them harm- real protection.
It is difficult to see how that could happen without a group situation.

Like I said.. hard to do here... very hard to trust people anymore as it is let alone those who don't care to even get to know you.. In order for it to work with groups, the people in the group would have to be at least local or within a certain range. Its all great to say you should have someone in the medical field in your group, but not everyone knows someone in that field.. so the best option is to take courses and learn any and all basic wound care, the trauma, etc. Anyone who doesn't have the option of group survival well makes up for it in learning the skills and preparing themselves. Its like if someone loses a limb.. they learn to make up for it.. What happens in your group if you lose someone.. say the one person you have for medical? Or you lose someone vital to another area in the group.

Everyone should work on knowing all skillsets before they even think of a group.. yes a group takes the stress of doing it ALL off your shoulders, and would really help.. just not everyone has that option sadly.

Hate to say it, but if I had a group, I wouldn't let 90% of my family in it. Sad to say, but we surly wouldn't survive then.. lol..

I stock for barter and trade... so if I need something, I would be happy to use extra supplies we don't use, liquor, smokes, etc to get it... I know how to shoot.. and Im teaching my girls.. If I had the option, I would LOVE to share time with like minded individuals who are trustworthy... but the harder I try to think of anyone local here, the worse the reality looks.. People around here just don't care. Not like the old days, where we all knew each other and got together for BBQ's and everyone brought a dish..

too many things have changed..
 
Old 12-24-2015, 07:01 AM   #13
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftingDreams View Post
Anyone who doesn't have the option of group survival well makes up for it in learning the skills and preparing themselves. Its like if someone loses a limb.. they learn to make up for it.. What happens in your group if you lose someone.. say the one person you have for medical? Or you lose someone vital to another area in the group.

Everyone should work on knowing all skillsets before they even think of a group.
That is how commerce between groups is initiated. One trades what one does not have, for what one has and the other group lacks.
Telling yourself you can learn all skillsets is comforting, but in my opinion, unrealistic.
One cannot make up for the years of knowledge and experience of an actual medical professional when an appendectomy is needed. Likewise, certain vehicle repairs will get done faster and better by one who is experienced in vehicle diagnostics.
While it is possible to acquire some skillsets with hard work and concentration, the hours expended getting them necessarily mean that other demands on one's time must go wanting. Without others to take up the slack, one's attempt to specialize may well mean that vital tasks get left undone.
 
Old 01-04-2016, 01:37 PM   #14
odduc748
This is an interesting thread I've stumbled upon...

First of all, YES, I am a prepper. I have everything needed to survive and plenty of extras for trading.

Second, my "Circle of Trust" is already quite small and would be considerably smaller in a societal collapse.

If this sort of thing really happened, my plan of action would be quite simple:
Gather up that "Circle of Trust" and assign everyone their respective duties and tasks. I am fully prepared to turn away those who called me the crazy one.
Establish authority immediately. (Yes. I'm the General here) If I recognize you'll be a problem, you will no longer be a part of the group.

My compound will be run much like a military installation. I believe this is the only way to survive and thrive in the new reality.

I know this sounds simple. But, this is how my "tribe" will survive.
 
Old 01-06-2016, 04:50 PM   #15
CwnAnnwn
I need a better explanation of the problem?

Are we talking complete collapse, no return? Are we talking worst parts of the bible? Are we talking like 1984? Where on the spectrum of hand full of dust to oh god oh god I dropped my iphone are we at?

The reason I ask is simple.
Your goals for short term and long term survival is completely different.

If it is short term, less then 3 months with out law and order. It really will not matter. As long as you are not part of a very large group or follow the group collectively jump off a cliff, you will be fine.

After three months, being alone will kill you. Being in a smaller group will get you more time, but humans are conditioned to have small societies of 300-800. We simply don't function well as a group with smaller numbers. We have a tendency to get little dictators that start to exploit the system for personal benefit. The lack of a counter voice and protection for that voice is more dangerous then disease in small societies.

As for how many and who you trust that is up to what who you are.

If you are very religious, then you can more or less trust the members of your church to stick to church rules, or expect them to punish each other if they are not. But rules are fluid and this can come around to marrying young girls and burning witches very quickly. If you are willing to follow the rules set by the leaders, you are good. This is how society has gotten along for thousands of years with out a major society to rule them. Religion was used mostly to replace societal laws when enforcement could not be expected. This works up to about 50-80 people. Then the counter voice will get frustrated enough to give the starry eye mosiah a violent farewell.

For larger groups, you can set up a communism/direct/indirect democracy system.

Everyone gets a vote and no one is placed in the solo/compete ruler role. yes there is chiefs, but they where more of public figures and negotiators then rulers. For example, the Cheyenne elected 4 chiefs from each band that held congress. The ten bands would get together to elect the arrow keeper, which is elected by all the chiefs in the congress. Any change for the system would be a vote by all the people relayed to the 44 congress chief, that would vote on their behalf. Any rule that needs to be enforced would be done by the arrow keeper. All decision that required direct military response or dealing with outside bands was done by the arrow keeper. When the counter voice gets tired of the current problems, they elect them out.

Sounds familiar? Yea. Our system of government was invent by the natives (more based on the Iroquois) . For the most part, hunters and gatherers have done this for tens of thousands of years. It works. It does require everyone to know their place and believe in the system. But it does work.

In really bad environments, you can do the Aboriginal Australian version. Small groups of less then 10 people that come together and separate when needed. It is very hard to keep large groups of people live in most of central Australian, they they develop a cultural response to it.

But to go back to the answer.

Yes, no, maybe.

If you where the only person left on the planet, you would live to 30ish? If you are lucky, 40ish?

A small group between 300-800, life expediency could go up to 50-70ish?

Given the ultimate goal (of all life) would be to reproduce, and genetically, you need 500 to 1500 people to do that.

With out others, a 50 year life with out reproduction will feel like a 300 year life and genetically a failure.

If reproduction is the main goal, you need at least 500 people.

If survival with out dying by unnatural means is the main goal, then you can do it with maybe 10 people. But you are considering dying by infection at 40ish years old a win.

Remember most of your deaths in this case will be from infection and other natural causes. You will fall down break your leg. You will get an infection. You will get sick. With out others you will not survive.
 

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