Scaredy Cat Geckos and Pokey's Geckos

Originally Posted by nikko49

I purchased a female crested from Ashley on Friday at the pet expo. Before I even drove home it was dead. I went back to the show but Ashley was gone.

I want to know exactly how long the gecko was in your possession. At what time did you pick the gecko up from Ash's table, and at what time did you realize it was dead? I also want to know what you did with the gecko after picking it up from Ash. Did you walk around the show with it? Did you take it back to your car at some point? I am inclined to think that you picked up the gecko, put it in your car, and went back into the show. If you did indeed do that, how long were you in the show before you went back to the car?

If instead you had the gecko with you and were walking around the show with it, how long were you doing that? Was the gecko in the cup in your hand, or did you have it stowed away in a bag?

Given these two scenarios, I am going to assume until you can prove differently that you put the geckos you purchased in your car at 70 degree temperature and returned to the show. Some amount of time passed, and when you went back to the car, the gecko was dead. The number one culprit in this incidence is overheating - which is your error and not an error on the part of the seller.

In the other scenario, where you walked around the show with the gecko, if you did not have it stowed away, the gecko could have stressed itself to the point of causing it a major health issue. Also, the gecko was in your possession at that point, which cannot be blamed on the seller.

Originally Posted by nikko49

Also according to weather.com it was degrees in Costa Mesa Friday April 10th when I made this purchase. So there is no way that I cooked the gecko in the car ride home. I had 2 geckos. 1 made it, and I had the windows down the whole time.

If it is 70 degrees outside, it can get up to 110 degrees in a car within 30 minutes. Google it. Just because it is only 70 degrees, doesn't mean it is safe to leave a gecko in a car for ANY amount of time, regardless if the windows are cracked or not! You say right in your story that before you left, the gecko was dead. (I am not sure why you bothered telling us that you drove home with the windows down if that was the case.) Crested geckos are not built for heat, obviously. If you had two geckos in this condition, and only one died, then you are very lucky. If you have been around this hobby even half as long as I have, you have heard of people with heater or air conditioning malfunctions in their homes. Not all geckos die when this happens. It is not clear why some live, but some geckos can survive a heat spike if it is a short amount of time. The seller can in no way be faulted for this death because we cannot know which geckos will make it or not until it happens.

Originally Posted by nikko49

it was probably dehrydrated from being left there in its deli cup overnight which Dale also told me is a regular practice they do. Covering the geckos after the show with a blanket and leaving them there.

As someone who has vended and attended many reptile shows in the past ten years, this is standard practice and should have no bearing on this situation. Geckos can handle being in deli cups for a few days, provided they are hydrated and have air holes. Since this was a local show, I have no reason to believe the gecko was in there long enough to become dehydrated, that would take a lot longer than overnight. Ash stated in her response that she packed the gecko on Thursday, and you picked it up on Friday. I am guessing that was right around 15-20 hours. Not long enough to cause dehydration in a 15 gram crested gecko.

As this particular seller is one of the most stand up, dedicated business owners in the hobby, she decided to offer you a new gecko. This 100% shows what kind of a person she is. She did the right thing in a situation that was out of her control. Giving you the option of picking not just one replacement gecko, but TEN is so far above and beyond the call of duty. Even if you decided you only wanted to actually look at two of those ten, that is still above and beyond what she needed to do as a seller.

I do not think you have any right to complain about your replacement gecko. First of all, the gecko's death is 100% your fault until you can prove otherwise. Your story leads me to believe that you took it out to your car, and came back hours later - or (in the less likely instance) you walked around the show with it and caused it too much stress. Ash did not have to replace your gecko, but she did. I have been working with crested for almost ten years; floppy tail on this species is not a big deal. Does it make the gecko 100% not perfect? Sure. But it does not mean the gecko is sick, nor does it mean the gecko cannot reproduce without causing further health issues. I have seen literally hundreds of cresteds with floppy tail at this point in my life. None of them are unhealthy in any way. Many people choose to make their geckos drop their tail if they get FTS, big deal! They don't need their tails in any way. A crested gecko without a tail does not have less value than one with it.

Finally, I want to say a few words about Ash and her business, ScaredyCat Geckos. I have been working with Ash for many years. She is responsible, knowledgeable, and above all, cares more about her geckos than anyone I have met since I got into geckos. She does not sell sick geckos, and her customer service is impeccable. Offering to replace a dead gecko that was not her fault with one of higher value speaks volumes about the kind of business person she is. She did the right thing in a bad situation. In fact, this situation should never have been brought to the BOI because she did what she needed to do to make it right, again, even though it was not her fault. The purpose of the BOI is to show sellers who do not make it right, or screw people over. Ash did not do that in any way, shape or form.

I am looking forward to the answers to the questions I've asked of you, Josh.

Well I guess its my turn to tell my side of the story. This guy comes back with our dead gecko, asking for a refund. I knew right away what happened to it. Its sad even with people I vend with thats not gecko people knew he killed it from over heating. The gecko was warm and the deli cup was dry. Since Ashley had already left, I told him thats not my gecko and to contact her on her facebook. Maybe he was not understanding what I was telling him, but told him she will handle it since I cant make that call. I dont know why you think I dont know her since obvisously we share the same booth and saw us together when we sold you both geckos.

I told Ashley right away, and thats why you got a quick response. This guy comes back with Ashley on the phone and she offered another gecko that was more then original. He didnt want it which was fine. After that I was out of the loop.

Now for some background about the show and Ashley and I. Yes we do put our geckos away at the end of every show, we place them back into a big tub. But every end of the day we mist all of our deli cups. The next morning we take them back out to put back on our table and we mist them again. Most of the time the liners we use have some dampness to them and drys out through out the day. Everybody knows if you work with geckos if they are dehydrated they will have sunken eyes and their body looks like its shriveling up. They will also have really bad sheds. Since this op is assuming it was dehydrated why would you buy two of our geckos then?

For this show its called petexpo is the biggest animal show out here since its just not reptiles. It has dogs cats birds fish. Anything you can keep as a pet they have. It was a nice sunny day. Probably low to mid 70s. Even when temps are nice outside sunlight can make inside the deli cup very hot. All the deli cup is doing is trapping all that heat since its enclosed with just airholes.

We tried to do the right thing and this is the outcome. We will be sure to never sell to this op and never do business with jc reptiles.

Ashley has many public ways for you to contact her. Via Facebook. In person at the show when she is there. Via email. Private message. You were not in any way entitled to her private phone number and Dale refusing to give it to you was the right thing to do. The only person that should be giving out a personal phone number is the owner of that number. I highly doubt dale said he didn't know Ashley. They shared a table, obviously he knows her. He is not her keeper...once she left the show, dale wouldn't know where she was. I think you misunderstood and expected information from someone who had nothing to do with your transaction. You are being rude towards him. Should he name you in a BOI? No, because there was no transaction between you.

You may not be happy with the results of the transaction with Ashley but that's on you. She did everything a good seller would do, including making right something that was out of her hands. If she was in the practice of selling sick geckos, you would find reports of it. She is extremely well known. Many sellers would not go as far as she did. You lucked out and your response is to complain. Good luck buying from other high end sellers in the future. They don't want to deal with a customer like this.

Your constant comments about the temperature show us you do not understand how temps affect this species. Low 70s does not mean the temp will remain safe in a cup outside, in a car, in a closed bag, in a jacket, etc.

Originally Posted by Pokey

We will be sure to never sell to this op and never do business with jc reptiles.

I am thinking that many others may come to that conclusion after reading this thread, to the benefit, in my opinion, of geckos everywhere.

I am with Krystal in my opinion as well, and as to the charges of the gecko having FTS I find your photos lacking. Geckos regularly hold their tails at odd angles, and your hand is visibly holding it up in the first photo so it may have simply stayed that way after release. I would need a video of it walking on a flat surface to further form an opinion. Regardless, it is not an advanced case of FTS, if anything at all, and as Krystal said a tail drop would absolutely alleviate your issues. If you purchased the gecko outright and never had the chance to see it in person (as in it was shipped) I believe the FTS would maybe be a bigger issue but you had the chance to see the gecko, all the geckos, and obviously made a purchase and accepted the subsequent replacement gecko which is much nicer than the one you originally purchased.

In my opinion Ashley went above and beyond for you as she saw the gecko alive when it left with you and return mere hours later dead? It had lived months in her care without issues but yours for less than 6 hours and it died? I have purchased animals from her as well and have not had any issues.

I have known Ashley since she was a sprout. She's not going to do what this ... person said. She's pretty damn stand up, for a girl.

I've seen lizards overheat on cool day in just a matter of minutes. You know all those commercials on TV that say you CAR IS AN OVEN even on cool days so don't leave your dog in it? Well, that applies to reptiles as well.

I would not hesitate to do business with or recommend others do business with Ashley. She's one of the good guys.

In all of this guys complaining online, not once has he addressed did he allow his car to run for several minutes to cook off, 10 minutes alone in 70 degrees brings the internal cabin of the car to nearly 90 degrees. He never answered how the animal was contained in the car: left in the seat, in a dark corner of the car, in a cooler? None of these were answered. Just a few minutes at these temperatures which escalade to even warmer temps inside of a deli cup were disregarded by this individual who is dancing around that topic.

He claimed both had FTS yet he admits to not checking them at the show. How can you conclude both had fts if you didn't even bother to take the time to actually look them over?

If you're so well versed in crested geckos why weren't they stored in a cooler on the way home? Why didn't you inspect the animal before making the decision on which one to take in replacement.

You then instead of going to Ashley to say hey I sm not happy with this gecko either, you blast her and Dale all over social media because you didn't bothrr to go to the source first. Ashley has good customer service, I've never even bought from her but I know that by friends transactions, she would have made the attemp to right the situation a SECOND time for you. And this could have been totally avoided had you taken the time to actually look the gecko over.

So with all of this your BOI is null IMO, you didn't even give her ample time to right the situation, instead like a child you step out and bash her and Dale, to which ty Dale for not giving her contact info. He could have easily emailed her, but instead choose this route.

Although, IMO, it should not have been in this manner, I would like to Thank the OP for bringing our attention to a breeder/seller who appears to have great customer service, etc.! If/When the time should arise, I will not hesitate to purchase from Scaredy Cat Geckos.

I have purchased from Ashley of Scaredy Cat Geckos multiple times. I have received nothing but healthy, quality geckos from her. It is very apparent that the OP allowed the gecko to over heat, there is no other explanation as to how it would die in that short amount of time. IMO he wasn't even entitled to having the gecko replaced, or getting a refund for something that was his mistake. But, being the stand up person that she is, she went above and beyond and replaced the gecko with an even NICER animal..

I don't even see FTS in the pictures, I see someone holding the geckos tail up in the air.

I have always, and will continue to recommend Ashley as someone reputable to buy from.

I was to by Dale who is also rude and yelled at me, I expected Ashley to keep her word, she didn't the first Geckos unhealthy obviously it died... The second Gecko now has fts, I breed and I know the health of my Geckos if you have a gecko that is not perfect as a vendor you have an obligation to tell the seller if you know it and you're hiding it that's wrong if you don't know there's a problem with your gecko you should probably spend some more time with your Geckos... That's the way I see it. you can argue the question that the car was too hot, however I've been to every show from Pomona San Diego and Costa Mesa for the last 4 years... I've never had a problem delivering a gecko home from a show... I also bought 2 that day when came home perfectly fine. You can check weather.com the weather was below 70 degrees for most of Friday. Why I'm angry is because I caught Dale lying to my face about not knowing Ashley, actually a short me she'd show me a variety of Geckos, she didn't the one I got I found out has fTs. Either she didn't know it had it or she did and didn't tell me. That's 2 unhealthy geckos from one vendor and another who was rude and a liar. You can assume all day that a simple car ride home killed it. Maybe it did. But why not the other? We're they properly hydrated before the show? I dunno. But dealing with dishonest people and people who show you a repetition of less then healthy geckos are people I'll not do business with. Take it for what it's worth and if you disagree then that's your right. But if it was you I bet you would be upset as well