Beware of Casey Lauren Byiers (Rhasputin/EVLV/Eccentric Evolution)

I don't believe it does prove your point...at least not in a legal sense. The person who organized was not paid to do so....she was volunteering a favor. Just b/c she was the contact for everyone, does not mean she is wholely responsible for everyone taking the correct animals.

That's exactly what it means.

even if that is true (I don't know that it is...show me the law). It does not excuse casey of wrongdoing....and as discussed earlier, this isn't about the letter of the law. I believe casey knew she was taking the wrong animal, and did so anyway. Even if it was a legitimate accident, as soon as the mistake was realized she should have owned up to it....instead of trying to convince me she'd asked for a pair all along and had confirmed it multiple times with the organizer (when obviously she had not since the organizer had told me early on someone asked for bucks only and showed me later the pm that confirmed males only...and of which she has no record). Ethically, I will not attack the organizer for an honest mistake in someone decieving them into taking the wrong animal.

frank, you're wrong.

How can you place blame on one person who had no real authority? Do you blame the Grandmother at the soccer game because someone else's child takes 2 cupcakes shorting one of the players of their treat? It's Granny's responsibility, because she volunteered for it, to make sure the cupcakes get there, that there are enough for everyone and that the mess gets cleaned up. She's NOT responsible for making sure all the kids only take one cupcake, that's on them and their parents. Everyone KNOWS there's one each and if you take two someone gets none.

Besides, you're splitting hairs where there's ample, more than ample, evidence that the wrong doer knew at the time and afterwards what she had done was wrong. This was no simple miscount or mistake. It was a theft.

In any case...the organizer has told casey she was not supposed to recieve the animal she took...it was not intended for her, it belongs to me. Whatever led Casey to believe it does belong to her doesn't matter... the animal was paid for by me, and was supposed to go to me, according to the person who "ordered" and made arrangements. The organizer has said that to casey, and myself (and has no reason to lie). Even if there was somehow a miscommunication between casey and the organizer at some point along the way (though I doubt it, based on the things I've seen/read, and casey has NO evidence of it), it doesn't change the fact that the animal was ordered for me, paid for by me, and was supposed to go to me, according to the organizer. There are a couple smallish things going on behind the scenes with the organizer trying to help...and I am looking into options for if casey doesn't right her wrong.

In the meantime, as mentioned, casey did say on b-p.net that she is going to give me the doe...but cannot afford to bring her to me right now... I can wait a short while if need be, but as other's have suggested the possiblity that she may be trying to hold out until the doe has a litter there that she might try to keep, I have requested (on b-p.net) that she give the doe to someone else for the timebeing until arrangements can be made to trade the animals.

Forgot to add.....if there was a mistake between casey and the organizer, casey should have taken it up with the organizer, rather than decide that someone else's animal belongs to her.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

frank, you're wrong.

How can you place blame on one person who had no real authority? Do you blame the Grandmother at the soccer game because someone else's child takes 2 cupcakes shorting one of the players of their treat? It's Granny's responsibility, because she volunteered for it, to make sure the cupcakes get there, that there are enough for everyone and that the mess gets cleaned up. She's NOT responsible for making sure all the kids only take one cupcake, that's on them and their parents. Everyone KNOWS there's one each and if you take two someone gets none.

Besides, you're splitting hairs where there's ample, more than ample, evidence that the wrong doer knew at the time and afterwards what she had done was wrong. This was no simple miscount or mistake. It was a theft.

Unfortunately you are wrong in a legal sense.

The contract was between the buyer and the organizer. An organizer does not have to make a profit to be responsible. It shas already been discussed that the legal argument here is a losing one...this post is more about an ethical issue than a legal issue. Legally, the OP paid for a mouse AND accepted possession of a mouse. The organizer technically owes the buyer NOTHING unless some sort of guarantee has been agreed to. Since Christina has stated that if a mouse had died in transit she would have been stuck with the loss, I highly doubt any guarantee exists beyond distribution. Ever see a store with a posted sign that says, "all sales are final"?

By your example: If someone received payment to distribute 1 cupcake to each child and one kid walks away with 2. Regardless if the kid took the cupcake or the person gave it to her, the person who collected money for the cupcakes entered a contract with the buyer to supply them with a cupcake. That person (whomever they are) is responsible ultimately.

The super ugly part about law is not finding who should be responsible, normally, it is actual collection of what is owed.

Originally Posted by StinaUIUC

Forgot to add.....if there was a mistake between casey and the organizer, casey should have taken it up with the organizer, rather than decide that someone else's animal belongs to her.

face facts, the situation sucks. I highly doubt the animals came in labelled "Christina" or "Casey"...this argument could be made just as easily over someone claiming she took all the nice animals. This is where an organizer was crucial because things weren't labelled. Decisions might of needed to have be been made. If the actual organizer could not have been there is person, they should have appointed one in their place. Someone was empowered to recieve the crate right? They signed for it and took the responsibilty from the airport? Why weren't they controlling the situation?

Yes if someone acted in a spiteful manner in the face of a situation meant to be good spirited, that is total crap. Shame on them.

However, I still say this was organized very poorly and the finger should be blamed on the organization as much as the individual. I bet we wouldn't had these issues if I would have received the crate.

Sorry Gary, I've been quiet too long and need to say something.

First off, if you would have gotten the crate or were involved, you would have kept the varieties that weren't in the country so you can "corner the market" as you put it.

Secondly, I disagree greatly that the organizer, who at the airport was running on no sleep, super stressed, and was MOBBED once the crate was opened and then had to drive back to the other side of the country that night, is to blame, and if so as badly as Casey.

I disagree with Casey in this matter 100% and I'm not sure why you are sticking up for her after what you said to me/after certain feelings that were conveyed. Or maybe I misread you/what you were saying at the show. Nevertheless...

Casey took something that didn't belong to her. She was told by the organizer that night that it didn't belong to her (after Stina inquired about the mouse), but we had all already gone and driven away and I'm assuming she didn't get the message right away.

I think it's unfair to hold someone accountable for the actions of another.

This person spent time and money organizing the shipment (but wait, I also helped organize the shipment as well by finding some breeders, so am I to blame too???? and anyone else who pitched in and helped?) and it was implied that the individuals at the airport taking mice (me, casey, and one other) were to take ours in good faith.

I had an additional animal in my possession at the end of it all. I went up to the organizer and told them and asked if she was an extra and if I can PURCHASE her. I didn't just take her, but apparently by your logic, if I would have taken her, the organizer would be the one in the wrong.

EVEN IF there was an accident at the airport, the organizer has been trying to handle it over and over to no avail. And when it came down to it and the crap hit the fan Casey still wouldn't hand the mouse over to the rightful owner when the cops had to come to MY HOUSE and she still refused flat out.

There was no reason for that what-so-ever and I think that puts more blame on her than on the poor organizer who has done everything in her power to right the situation/mistake short of coming here herself (which proves ineffective).

If you're going to loop and condone a MISTAKE on the organizers part as badly as PURPOSELY STEALING on Casey's part, I think you deserve very little respect.

Like it's been said several times on here (please read) we're not talking about the letter of the law here, we are talking about ethics and morals.

What has happened is ridiculous and childish and I never thought that someone I considered a friend was like this.

This is the first time I have expressed my opinion on this matter but this is how I feel.

I am personally embarrassed for what has been done!

If I pay an importer to bring in animals for me. Upon entering the country, one of his employees, family member's or even a stranger steals those animals from him. That importer is who received my money and needs to make this right to me. This is the cut and dry version of what happened. People are clouding the facts because the situation was to have been more personal than a business dealing between two people. Christina's issue is with whoever received her money.



Elena, I don't take what is not mine. PERIOD. I paid your Mommy whatever she requested at the show and never tried to short change anyone. So the implication that someone unwilling to sell or give you something equates to stealing is insane.

Second, whoever received the cash, offered and entered the contract that a product was to be received in exchange, was responsible for the buyer receiving their just product. PERIOD. Responsibility is a legal and ethical obligation. If they dropped the ball and did not do their job as well as they should have, they need to step forward and say so also.
I never conveyed any feelings about Casey implying she was dishonest or theif. Not crazy about her attitude etc, but that doesn't equal a theif.


Ok, I wasn't there. Christina's friend left that airport with the right number of animals that she paid for correct? Either her friend or the organizer did not make sure their product was exactly right, correct? Or are you implying that Casey switched the animal out of their cage without their knowledge?

Last i read, Casey offered to give the mouse to Christina. Christina already has a mouse, just not the "right" one.