Beware of Jerry Kruse

Originally Posted by TONY D

At John L.

Darn good post John! An interesting angle indeed. Very good reason for Jerry to take extreme quarantine measures when he gets the animals back.

Thanks Tony...
I was tired of seeing the same bashing from the zonata experts as from those that don't even know what a zonata is...lol

I believe Jerry is doing the right thing.
I also believe that Stu's zonata do have symptoms of ZD, but I don't know, nor does ANYONE know how they got it.
I also believe it is possible that it can be reversed, but maybe not after a month.

Originally Posted by StuTennyson

My husbandry techniques have come under scrutiny during the course of this thread. I have responded with details and pics as to how I have maintained these snakes. I've noticed since posting pics showing current humidity that there has not been any comments regarding the possibility that my snakes are being maintained too dry. So I guess that means they are acceptable conditions... It would be nice to see some similar evidence from those that have made recent posts regarding their zonata's and how perfectly healthy they are. Maybe we (I) can learn how better to keep them.

Stu,
Even with perfect husbandry a zonata can become "infected" with ZD.
I don't really think your husbandry had anything to do with their condition.
I believe they were infected by another animal (zonata or not?) somehow.

Originally Posted by JerryKruse

.... You call it damage control, I call it a series of events that went awry between two very different people that didn't look at the problem the same way. The fact that I continue to make commentary here isn't damage control, however if you or anyone else continue to WANT to look at it that way for whatever your reason may be, I could also very well NOT maintain a daily presence here -- and I'm positive THAT would be misconstrued in some negative way as well. So what would you prefer? =)

a series of events that went awry?!?!?! really?, really? hmmmm the way i read it stu paid you 3100.00 and within 2 weeks they looked terrible and stu TRIED to handle between just the 2 of you and was UNSUCCESSFUL so he brought it here. ONLY after pressure here did you say you would do the right thing and REFUND his money. sad but true

There seems to be a push to determine what caused Stu's snakes to deteriorate as they have, as if that will point to a proper course of resolution between him and Jerry. I would suggest that that is irrelevant. If these snakes within days of being received had begun showing symptoms of a known deadly disease such as IBD or crypto, would anyone have questioned if the seller should have made a prompt refund whether or not the disease had actually been definitively diagnosed? I doubt it. It is unfair to the buyer but that is the reality if he wants to keep a good seller rating and keep this stuff off the forums.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub

There seems to be a push to determine what caused Stu's snakes to deteriorate as they have, as if that will point to a proper course of resolution between him and Jerry. I would suggest that that is irrelevant. If these snakes within days of being received had begun showing symptoms of a known deadly disease such as IBD or crypto, would anyone have questioned if the seller should have made a prompt refund whether or not the disease had actually been definitively diagnosed? I doubt it. It is unfair to the buyer but that is the reality if he wants to keep a good seller rating and keep this stuff off the forums.

Can you take a snake to a vet and determine if the animals has IBD or crypto? Can you take a Z to the vet to determine if it has ZD? You are saying that all you have to do is say that you think it has something and that is reason for a refund. I think that it is possible for a snake to go south very quickly and it is possible for it not to be a sellers fault. Jerry is refunding him and there is no proof of what happened. There isn't even a test to say it is ZD. Stu said he talked to Jerry and they are working it out. What else is there to talk about? Stu is getting his full refund and all the comments from the keyboard commandos is what's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub

There seems to be a push to determine what caused Stu's snakes to deteriorate as they have, as if that will point to a proper course of resolution between him and Jerry. I would suggest that that is irrelevant. If these snakes within days of being received had begun showing symptoms of a known deadly disease such as IBD or crypto, would anyone have questioned if the seller should have made a prompt refund whether or not the disease had actually been definitively diagnosed? I doubt it. It is unfair to the buyer but that is the reality if he wants to keep a good seller rating and keep this stuff off the forums.

Now you are playing right into what this board knows and/or doesn't know about and you know it...You hit the nail on the head when you stated "a KNOWN deadly disease like IBD or Crypto." ZD is not known very well by anyone. I hope one day y'all west coasters figure it all out for everyone though...

NO ONE...not Stu, not Jerry, not Thomas, not Rick, not Mitch, not Paul, not Jeff nor anyone for that matter knows how Stu's animals were "infected."

But....Jerry is doing the right thing and that is what matters.
I believe this thread is over now. They settled it, now all they have to do is follow through with THEIR deal.

Originally Posted by Gerards

Can you take a snake to a vet and determine if the animals has IBD or crypto? Can you take a Z to the vet to determine if it has ZD? You are saying that all you have to do is say that you think it has something and that is reason for a refund. I think that it is possible for a snake to go south very quickly and it is possible for it not to be a sellers fault. Jerry is refunding him and there is no proof of what happened. There isn't even a test to say it is ZD. Stu said he talked to Jerry and they are working it out. What else is there to talk about? Stu is getting his full refund and all the comments from the keyboard commandos is what's irrelevant.

Wow Gerard. I was about as impartial as you can get and by your standard I am a "keyboard commando"? I even stated that it was unfair that the seller has to take on this responsibility when something comes up shortly after a sale. What gives?

No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub

I even stated that it was unfair that the seller has to take on this responsibility when something comes up shortly after a sale.

I should have said "that a seller has to take on this responsibility" since I was not intending to single out Jerry.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub

I should have said "that a seller has to take on this responsibility" since I was not intending to single out Jerry.

That makes more sense. What you said first was that it was unfair to the buyer.

I was not referring to you as the keyboard commando. You have experience with these animals. I was referring to the people who have not dealt with the two people involved or the animals.

With that said, what was the point of your first response? The situation was resolved off the forum.............there's nothing more to say.

"No ZD cannot be diagnosed past looking at symptoms and using experience to make plausible assumption (done more often then you think in medicine). For IBD you need to do a liver biopsy to look for inclusions. Not possible for many vets and frequently done during necropsy. For crypto you can look for fecal spores (?) but sometimes you need to do stomach scrapes post mortum. Point being that if symptoms arose within days of receipt for either of these typically fatal diseases, why should the buyer put out substantially more time and funds to show they definitively have the disease? If a python starts star gazing with a couple days it is going back to the seller. If a rosy is puking every meal it is going back to the seller. It is unfair but the presumption is that the seller is responsible regardless if the snake actually has the disease in the end."

Ok, there is no way to say it's ZD. The snakes are going back to the seller. What's the problem? He wasn't hiding or ignoring him and he's refunding him. What else needs to be said. All that info you gave was good. How is someone's opinion on how fast the refund wasn't done relevant ? I don't even know stu or Jerry. I just think that it's over and the couple people that keep taking shots are the "BAD GUYS". Im sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you. That wasn't what I was trying to do.