Matt Oakley

Originally Posted by KJUN

If true, why not just refund him 14% of the rodent price, 14% of the shipping costs, and be done with it? Heck, that would be cheaper than continuing this thread, eh? The BG post may have been premature (especially without evidence the rodents were actually undersized other than his word), but if any were off-sized, then his complaint is valid.



Condensation from the air doesn't decrease the mass of a rodent defrosted in air. That's like saying a glass of coke LEAKS water because of the moisture on the outside of the glass. Sorry, but I'm not one of the guys thinking YOU are definitely in the wrong here because I haven't seen proof that the rodents were actually under-sized, but these "thawed rodents weight less" arguments aren't helping you at all, Matt. It's making you look like you are struggling for an excuse, and I don't think that is the look that you are trying to portray.
KJ

I was explaining why I said that, not continuing the argument. I also, said in my last reply that I realized I had room for erroe and will fix this.
thanks,
Matt

Quote:

Not true
I checked, a sealed bag, same weight yesterday frozen as they are today thawed, exactly the same.

Not after you drain the water from it which i'm sure you didn't do. Have you ever let a rat thaw and looked at what it thawed on?? I guarentee you it will be wet, causing it to weigh less than when it was frozen. I didn't respond for you to argue with me about it as I do see this happen at work EVERYDAY. Even customers a smart enough to ask for their items to be thawed before purchasing it...

Hey Matt, The shrimp are misted with water then flash frozen when processed.
The shrimp do not change weight.
You are talking in circles.......

Here is a quick copy of the last email I had with him after I told him the rats were small, 1 bag of rats did average over the 150 gram each mark, barely. I do have some of the rats left and will weigh them. I have been busy buying a new house here is the email regarding the undersize mice. I did not wait to post here because he gave me no indication he had any intention of doing anything at all for me. I have dealt with dishonest people before and in my experience when they say it is not their problem they never do anything for you. Also he states that the weaned mice were larger then they were stated in his ad, not true, unless when I ordered weaned he thought I meant pinkie mice.


All of the 150 "weaned" mice I sent you were larger than my ad states. I sent you the largest mice I had at the time. Shipping also costed me about $20 more than what I charged you. From our conversation, i'm guessing that you didn't read my ad before sending me your order.


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Kade <craigkade@chartermi.net>
To: bloodpython160@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: Rodent order


the extra large mice were also small, the bag weighed 2479 grams your ad states large mice are suppose to be 30-39 grams. If you are goingf to rip people off you may want to stop sending through the mail, it is called mail fraud and although they probably won't investigate one complaint, after they get a couple they may.

Originally Posted by EastCoastReptiles171

Not after you drain the water from it which i'm sure you didn't do. Have you ever let a rat thaw and looked at what it thawed on?? I guarentee you it will be wet, causing it to weigh less than when it was frozen. I didn't respond for you to argue with me about it as I do see this happen at work EVERYDAY. Even customers a smart enough to ask for their items to be thawed before purchasing it...

Rats are not frozen (or shouldn't be, do you coat yours in ice before packaging?) the same way as shrimp. When I pull rats out of a fresh bag from Big Cheese, the rats are DRY. There is no ice, no moisture whatsoever on the outside of the rats, therefore....nothing to melt and no reason the weight should change. If an item is weighed with a layer of ice covering the outside, of course it is going to weigh differently. No sensible comparison between the two methods.

"I did this experiment to see what I would get myself instead of asking Craig because I really wouldn't believe the number he would say. I think that if most or even a large number of the rats were under the minimum weight he would have stated exactly how many of them were."


I told myself that I was going to stay out of this disagreement between the two of you, however, this is getting ridicoulus. For you to say that you would not believe Craig and that he is exaggerating on the size of the rats that you sent him. Has anyone ever told you that in running a business, you have to deal with customers and customer satisfaction if you want to succeed. Craig would not lie about the size or the number of rats that were under your minimum weight for XL rats of your standards. Trust me, sometimes he is way too honest and blunt in my opinion (which is not a bad quality) but he would not waste his time on this forum all day long, nor would he have posted a bad guy thread on here, if he did not feel he had been cheated. (and I feel the exact same way seeing the rodents myself and knowing the size of snakes that Craig has to feed) I did see the size of your so called "XL" rats and it amazes me that someone in the reptile industry would for one, be able to call those XL rats (I just purchased some medium rats from a local reptile show and my rats were larger than some of Craigs) and for two not realize that including different size rats in a bag and averaging it out is not the way that rodents should be sold. In our case, yes Craig was able to feed the rats off because of the varying sizes of snakes that he has, however the large boas got an appetizer instead of a meal. But what if this had been a customer that was just buying extra rats to keep in a freezer to feed his 3 or 4 boas that were approximately the same size, he would have never been able to feed the ones that were too large without putting potential harm to his snakes. Also you stated yourself that you did not put the weight of the bag into consideration, you state that you weigh your rats in the bags and then take an average weight, most of your bags of rats were under 130g, did you also take into consideration that the bag itself weights 30g?? I do work in a customer service setting and the customer may not always be right in your opinion, however, you want to try to satisfy as many of your customers as you can so that you build a relationship and create repeat business. Craig is not a hard person to deal with, and you also state that he did not even give you a chance to respond to his dissatisfaction, but he did call you and express to you that he felt you shorted him and that he felt like he was ripped off and you told him that you were not going to do anything about it, what was he suppose to do? Wait a few days to see if you would change your mind? You were not receptive to working anything out with him, just real short and positive that you felt you had not mislead him in anyway. If I were in Craigs shoes, I would have felt ripped off as well with what was sent and what was advertised in your ad. Even if you don't change your guidelines of your rodent sizes, you should at least inform customers how you pack and ship your rodents and warn them they they will not be relative in size. And in my personal opinion, which may not mean much, the reason that the rodents that were not in bags and in the box loose, those probably thawed out because they did not have any insulation around them what so ever (I.E. a bag) and because the box that you shipped the rodents in was a banana box, which had holes in it, allowing the frozen rodents to have constant air flow throughout the box, which probably helped the rodents to thaw out in the change in temperatures and climates during shipping.

Hello, I am another one who sits back and reads all of these forums and chooses to never get involved, but I have been following this thread and it seems to me that from the beginning this should have been an open and closed case, and there wouldnt have to be pages of discussion. The customer did not get what he ordered, and therefore should have some sort of compensation. This reminds me of a situation a few years back when I ordered a small sausage pizza from my local pizza shop, and when it arrived it was a large mushroom. The delivery guy thought I should be grateful since I only paid for a small. I said, I dont eat mushroom, and its not what I ordered. Why should any customer in any situation, in any business be forced to accept services or products (regardless of more or lesser value) if it is not what they originally requested. The entire point of ordering anything specific is based on need.

Originally Posted by ophidile

I don't see any reason why Craig would lie, but so far Matt claims the worst of the problem (most of the bags being under the min weight) is not true.

I didn't want to strait out call Craig a liar because that was a strong thing to say about him character but now I have the evidence:


Honestly, I was planning on giving Craig a partial refund to fix my mistake with the rats and not ad anymore to this conversation. So, I e-mailed Craig to see how much he wanted back. Here's our conversation:


From: bloodpython160@aol.com
To: craigkade@chartermi.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:27 AM

What do you want back?
thanks,
Matt



From: Craig Kade <craigkade@chartermi.net>
To: bloodpython160@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 7:20 am

$75 sound fair?



From: bloodpython160@aol.com
To: craigkade@chartermi.net
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:12 PM

How do you come up with that figure? I figured a quater off of every rats as if every one of them was undersized. Since this was not the case I figured that would have been more than fair.



From: Craig Kade <craigkade@chartermi.net>
To: bloodpython160@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 2:53 pm

So are you saying $35 is fair?



From: bloodpython160@aol.com
To: craigkade@chartermi.net
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:24 PM

I was going to say $50 which I think is more than fair.



From: Craig Kade <craigkade@chartermi.net>
To: bloodpython160@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 12 Feb 2009 11:24 pm

no don't worry about it, it is worth more then that for me to say that it was never taken care of.

If Craig was so concerned about fixing the problem it wouldn't have taken him so long to e-mail me back as I did the same day he e-mailed me. If he wasn't just out to make me look as bad as possible he wouldn't have said that he'd rather I keep the money so he can continue to run my name through the mud and say that I never attempted to resolve the problem...

To me his motivation to writing the post in the first place was to "screw me back" not resolve the problem.

Can you honestly say that if you were in the same situation and the seller is obviously trying to fix the problem that you would have said the same thing?? I know I wouldn't...

How about it craig? This is about trying to fix mistakes after all, not for vendetta type threads. If what he's saying is true, it don't really make you look any better IMO.

He asked what I wanted I told him and he did not like it, I will not deny any of the emails, they look accurate, if anybody wants to send me their money, have me rip them off and offer a 13 percent refund and call it good, great. I will offer purple elephants at $1000, send you a white mouse and offer you $150 back. Plain and simple if you want what you order do not order from this guy, period. I think I have made my point if I am lying because I am to busy to reply to his email as quick as he would like then my bad. I took his pitiful offer as an insult and almost did not reply at all, then I decided I would send him an answer. If I ripped a customer off and they said that 18% refund or whatever was fair I would have had them the money instantly, not counter offer. Plain and simple he admits shorting me and admits he was wrong. What is $50, nothing, $25 more from him and we would not even be having this conversation. If I was trying to make a future of this I would, and do, try to make my customers happy. So if after reading this you still want to do business with him great, let me know how those "hets" prove out or what "healthy " means. If he ships you a dead animal he will probably offer you a 13% refund. Or if you order a boa and get a ball, 13% refund. He asked what I wanted I told him, he did not like it. I really wanted my order shipped right but figured $75 would get me rats from a real supplier.I guess I will just say, if you still do business with him and have a problem please email me so I can send you a big fat I told you so. I still need to go get rats from a supplier that ships what they advertise. Sorry if I did not answer this soon enough. I will be adding to this thread whenever I get a minute just to keep it fresh. Good day. Craig Kade

Just to add, he says it best "screw me back" as in yes I did get screwed by Matt in the first place, well put you are right. Sucks when people voice how they got screwed and actually do not like it. I never said he never tried to resolve it, he did after I posted here, just did a piss poor job of it in my opinion.