cheating

When I see signs of obvious cheating, it is pretty easy to nail down by taking a look at the domain logs for FaunaTopSites. What I will see is one or two IP addresses that are logging a whole string made in rapid succession of page hits to the target site being monitored via the topsites script. Often I will see a long string of page changes with only 2 seconds between page moves. For a message board system, this is pretty obvious since most people can't read pages that quickly. Now for a photo album or perhaps a classified section, yes, that might be feasible with someone quickly browsing through those kinds of pages.

As for a site logging a whole slew of raw hits with a low number of IP addresses, in some cases that can be possible as well. I have seen several instances of message board sites that seem to have 50 to 90 percent of the traffic coming from less then a half dozen participants. In some cases, I have seen nearly all of the traffic take place with only the moderators involved in discussions. So is this "cheating"? Technically, no, not in my opinion. There is nothing at all that says three or four people can't whip up a message board system and simply use it to talk among themselves as much as they want. That is really up to them, if that is what they want to do.

That being said, I HAVE actually caught some people who have obviously sat in front of their computer and refreshed the screen over and over again. One particularly energetic individual was doing this to the tune of over 7,000 refreshes per day. In most cases like that, I simply remove them from the system after letting them know they have been caught. In others, I may be more subtle about it and tell them that there is something broken in their system making a bunch of bogus hits on the topsites engine and they need to "fix" the problem. Those who take the hint can remain on the listing. Those that don't get booted.

Wow...I figured the info was available. I didn't know it was available to the degree of how fast the hits came from a particular IP address.

I can understand then how it would be much easier to catch cheaters...
I have been part of a 3 or 4 person conversation like you described...using a message board...mostly because it is an easy way to have a group conversation that other people, not available at that time, can read and reply to later...it can definitely rack up the hit count, I am sure...never thought about that.

Thanks for the explanation...I was certainly curious and slightly skeptical (ever the Devil's Advocate by nature)...but this makes MUCH more sense to me now.

Oh, yeah...

ANYONE who will sit in front of their screen for 7000 refreshes had better find a hobby...

I mean, really...don't they have animals to feed or cages to clean...or SOMETHING?

I guess they don't realize to have an AVERAGE hit count...they would have to do that every single day...sounds like an extreme waste of time to me...

Yeah, most cases of cheating are really just a "flash in the pan" situation as it will wear anyone down after a short period of time. I have actually seen cases of cheating where you could tell the main perpetrator took a day or two off to recuperate and then came back at it after the break. Sooner or later they will fall to the wayside when they get tired of it.

As far as I can tell, the purpose of it all is to try to get on, and remain, on the front page of the topsites listing. In some cases, even though I know cheating is taking place, I will allow it to continue just to see how persistent that person is. Then it all becomes wasted effort when I pull the plug on them.

Really, to get on the front page is not all that difficult to do. But getting into the top 10 and staying there would be a real feat for someone with a LOT of perseverance. But these people are missing the entire point of a topsites program. It is a measure of how effective you are in promoting your site and getting people to come to it. It is direct feedback about your efforts to attract visitors. That's why I have both measures visible (raw clicks and unique IPs). The unique IPs will show you how many actual IP addresses (which roughly equates to a unique person per IP) come to your site, whereas the raw hits will tell you approximately how much each person will find of interest on your site. If you see 100 unique IP addresses logged with 1000 raw hits, then each person is looking at an average of 10 pages on your site. That is a good thing. However, if you see 100 IPs and only 100 raw hits, then you have a problem. That means people are coming to only one page on your site, then leaving.

One thing of interest I have noted related to above is that some of these services that offer traffic to your site are really a big waste of money. I have seen some people buy into these things and yeah they will get a lot hits from them, but they are obviously from some kind of hit generator program. Those things will obviously generate unique IP addresses for each raw hit. A friend or mine bought into one of these services and it was very obvious what was going on. There is just no way you would get a 1 to 1 ratio between IPs and raw hits on a site that was a classifieds site with many pages on it. So if you see that sort of service being advertised and think it may be something you are interested in trying, you may want to just save your money. Of course, something like this would be right up a cheater's alley if they want to save wear and tear on the refresh button.

What I dont understand is why would one do this in the first place? If you as a site owner know the numbers are fake what are you accomplishing? Just an image and ego thing?

That would kinda be like using Photoshop on your bank statement. You can make it look like you have $1,381,254.18 in the bank if you want.... but in reality you still only have $36.67.

A topsites listing is a form of advertising. As such most people realize that being on the first page is the most advantageous position to be in because that is the page that will get viewed the most by a casual observer. They apparently really are not interested in USING the program for what it is intended at all. They just want to be on the front page, no matter what. Of course, the thought that someone seeing them cheating might reflect poorly on their opinion of them seems to escape their notice. So in effect, the advertising they get could turn around and be somewhat negative in nature.

My site is #10.

It's easy to stay high on the list with a forum, people are visiting daily and viewing many pages every time. This is far more traffic than just an informational site that people view once or twice a month and read just a few pages. Good thing I don't pay for bandwidth per mb, I'd be in the poorhouse.

I just came across this thread, and I have to say I'm pretty upset that I have been accused of cheating on the topsites. I certainly don't have that much spare time to sit and click refresh and I don't have the technical expertise to insert some kind of code to do that for me.

I have the topsites code plugged into my forums which is where the bulk of the pageloads come from. I have 300 unique visitors viewing on average 10-20 pages, that includes checking PM's, user CP, each thread they post in, etc etc.

I am not sure why I have been singled out here, as I see most of the rest of the top 20 or so have the same or similar unique hits to pageload ratio. If Rich or anyone else associated with Fauna thinks I am doing something wrong, I would first of all like to know if there is a way I can clear my name , by giving you access to my site through the server or whatever. Secondly I'll remove the topsites code from the forums if you wish.

I am also not as technically inclined as some in the realm of web developing but I notice that when I update my website, be it the available page or even minor tweaks it does make my site jump up about 20-30 positions in the top sites list. Sometimes what appears to be cheating is not always so.

I seriously doubt that Matt has the time to stay chained to his computer all day, hitting "refresh" to boost his ratings.

The Pangea Forums are very popular and have a lot of active members. I know that I spend a lot of time on there, skimming through posts and putting in my $.02. If the ratings are up, it's because the site has a healthy member attendance... not because Matt is "cheating".

It's better to do some research on the subject in question before pulling a random name out of a hat that will offend people and potentially cast a shadow on their business. ("Cheating" is not a word someone wants to see in a sentence with their name.) Matt's a good guy who has an active forum... not a ratings psycho who's in love with their "refresh" button.

Just my $.02.