limit this site to sells for pet. propagation. education. collecting purposes

I find it appalling people can sell turtles on here by the "kilo" to "Hong Kong" buyers.... I THOUGHT this site ( the classifieds) were for collecting, propagation. education. pet purposes only... Though it may not be illegal, I find it appalling as do many other herpers on here that FC would allow HUNDREDS of turtles be sold to the highest bidder per kilo by weight to "Asian forgien markets"

give me a break...


those are my thoughts, this is my feedback... Webslave, moderators, you may feel differently, I know it is not a new practice, and these are hard times, it is hardening to see this however and I feel it puts shame on your site for us sympathetic herp lovers who view posts like this. again, so there is no confusion, those re my opinions, if Ive done something wrong, I am asking you kindly, in advance, please correct me before giving me a infraction.


thank you for your time.
Kevin Wrobleski

I agree that it's disgusting to do that.
In my opinion, anyone who does this is worthless and sickening.
Humans are disgusting though, sad really. Not all, but plenty to notice.

Here is where it gets sticky.
In a perfect world it would be fantastic to keep people from doing this here, but in reality I'm just not sure it's possible, or how Rich wants things to be.

Again, I hate that it happens. I do. It's pathetic, I'm just not sure it can be totally controlled.

My own feelings aside, let's look at this from a different angle.
Do you have objections to wholesale lots?
What about wholesale lots of WC animals?
What about wholesale lots of WC animals available for export?
See where I'm going with this?...if we prohibit the blatant language this seller is using; he (and others) will just change the wording and keep doing what they're doing.

Now, on a personal level, I hate seeing that crap here...just like I hate seeing ads that I'm fairly sure are scams. As a moderator, though, I can't just get rid of stuff or ban people because I don't agree with it.

I don't care for it either, but we've all got something we hate seeing here.

If Rich doesn't like it, he'll shut it down. If not, it's best for us to not open those sorts of ads/threads.

you are totally right, and maybe it is asking for too much, maybe Webslaves thoughts are different, but......


if a moderator can pin point and punish me for my actions and my post.


can he not read the ORIGINAL posting and decipher the ad is for turtle meat??

keywords:

"Hong Kong buyers"
"Kilos"
"300 turtles"
"Market"
"send to your "broker" on west coast"
"I have QUOTA??"


does ANYONE honesly think they take 300 snapping turtles the size of the one he has pictured, boxed them all up nicely and send them to a "broker" who sends them to HONG KONG, CHINA to be sold as pets?

something tells me they are being sent to their deaths... kept in horrible conditions, chopped/ hacked up... compressed, frozen into blocks and then.... sent to hong kong buyers...

here is the original link to anyone who cares to see what was posted.


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=397630

sorry for raising a stink about this... this is the feedback section, these are only thoughts... my thoughts. I apologize for getting emotional and outwardly expressing them on here. Sorry for bringing any of this up. I feel obligated to at least express myself, for the sake of these turtles, on behalf of them, I know people here eat them, I know people here run them over.... I also know and have seen countless videos, articles, pictures of how China treats their animals, anyone see the newest fad there? completly seal a baby turtle in a plastic baggie and put it on your key chain... Competely sealed... it dies in the bag from not food or oxygen.... on.... your keychain...... how about the latest news of a Chinese vessel smashing into a protected Phillipino reef with thousands of pounds of illegal patagoinan meat? or just recently 900+ chinese people were arrested for selling RAT meat and calling it MUTTON... these are recent stories, google it.... I cannot stand watching a German shepard on a chinese street corner get skinned alive and then left to die without its skin/fur.... I am sick of how other Countries desrepect and treat their animals..... I choose not to view these things now, as my emotions always get the best of me... so seeing these turtles on here being auctioned off to the highest bidder just makes me SICK.

If this was a place to buy/ sell MEAT, then I would understand... heck, I wouldnt even be on this site if that were the case.... and..... that is my point...


again, if Ive offended anyone, or someone disagrees with me, I apologize in advance... this is in regards to my feedback... about not allowing herps to be sold as meat here on the classifieds. I know I was bending the topic here but I feel it is all relavent.

Kevin

So, are you proposing that we interrogate all buyers and sellers to determine their intentions with the animals and the actual sources of where those animals came from? That we should play judge, jury, and executioner and therefore determine what YOU do and whether or not that this is acceptable to US? Is our opinion enough, or should we form a committee composed of a set number of people to cast votes of 'YEA' or 'NAY' for each and every post to buy or sell animals here? Where would we draw the line as to whose input is acceptable? Should PETA or SPCA also be welcome to provide input, or do we need to make an arbitrary line in the sand saying whose opinions will be acceptable to try to stack the deck towards one "favorable" outcome or another? Even then, how would we define "favorable" without being arbitrary?

Yeah, most people do not like someone selling wild caught animals, but even in a case like that, where should the line be drawn? Should only the person who catches such animals be blocked, but it's OK for the first line reseller? If not, then how far up the chain before it is OK? How far removed from being wild caught are YOUR animals? Sorry, but any decision made would be arbitrary and capricious, much less impossible to enforce without a team of investigators working full time on this.

And has it actually been stated anywhere concerning what the classifieds section is "for"? At best, I may have made statements to the effect that the classifieds sections are offered on an "as is" basis regarding your use of that section of this site. Quite frankly, I have no intention whatsoever of trying to put myself nor the mods directly in the middle of every proposed transaction that takes place here. We try to keep all transactions strictly between the buyers and the sellers and just stay the heck out of the way. YOU need to make your own decisions about such things instead of insisting that WE filter everything through a filter that YOU want created based on YOUR personal opinions.

Sorry, but most people want me to draw a line in the sand with a sharpened sword over one thing or another that they personally don't like, and to hell with whose toes will get sliced off in the process. Which is fine till someone else wants the line placed where YOUR toes are jeopardized. Suppose I were to take PETA and SPCA to heart and draw that line where they would like it to be? Are you going to be happy with that? Why should their input, then, be given any less consideration than anyone else's if we want to go down that road?

There will always be someone who doesn't like something, so if I enforce YOUR desire to have something taken away from someone else, then that leaves the door wide open for someone else to rightfully demand that I take away some privilege of yours that they don't like. It could be no other way. What it all boils down to is that this is the cost of true freedom. Other people have to bear the burden of putting up with something you like to do that they don't care for so in return you have to do the same in respect to them.

So I guess what you are saying is... in a sense... its ok to sell reptiles and amphibians on here for human consumption? Webslave, please forgive me for spewing this outwardly on here, again this is your feedback forum, if it is impossible, I understand, if the classifieds technically have not been defined as to what is what or who can sell what or whatever.... then.... I understand... this paticular classified is a bit unique, in the sense that it raised the alarm of three different users on here to suspect these were being SENT to Thier deaths... Webslave, if this does not concern you... then I will drop my case. I just could not help myself from replying and crying out... so sorry I am sympathetic to these animals... I have been properly punished, you have address that, in a nut shell there is nothing that can be done to monitor ads like this one beyond a certain point.

I will accept my infractions and drop my case. feel free to delete this thread I started. If I see future ads like this particular one... I will try to refrain from veiwing...

But....

if I put a ad up like this: would anyone question it?:


title: Attention Chinese Buyers in America

I have 32 chuckwallas, 50 desert iguanas, 890 desert scorpions, selling by the kilo only, the iguana in Chinese culture is said to cure diabetes.
scopions are sold live orflash frozen, these are better then viagra!
Please serious Hong Kong buyers only. Will send to your broker on west coast.


something about me being a proud American herper... just makes me not feel great about seeing stuff like that on my favorite website... lol

maybe I am sounding childish to everyone?!

sorry


BTW/ PS

I LOVE Fauna Classifieds and, wanted to personally thank you Rich AKA Webslave for creating FC's its a privledge and a honor!

seeing how its Sunday, and Mothersday, can I get a Hallelujah?
Maybe a Amen on that FC rocks

As much as it sucks for the turtles, especially since they sure look to be wild caught, where is that line? What about rodents or insects sold to be feeders? They're sold individually, by lot, by pound. Is the life of a turtle more valuable than that of a rat or cricket? Why?

I do get your point and I do think it's lousy. It's the line thing that gets blurry too blurry to make distinctions such as the one you refer to OP. Where is it, how big is it, how long is it and what is the duration of its existence. Once you have the line, is it permanent or temporary? That's the problem with lines. They look so simple and straight, but they're clever little buggers hiding all sorts of nasty twists and turns for those unfortunate enough to have relied on such outwardly appearing finality.

Originally Posted by kanozig

the iguana in Chinese culture is said to cure diabetes.

In the not-too-distant-past, there was beef and pork insulin sold in the U.S.. Do you want to know how I know this? I have a diabetic, insulin dependent child. He will die if he cannot get insulin.
If an iguana truly could cure diabetes, are you saying that you feel that it would not be appropriate to use an iguana to help my child?