Advice Concerning Large Purchase Problem..

In this hypothetical situation, I will not name names or anything, I just want some advice on how best to deal with this situation.

Say you bought a large group of baby corn snakes, some of them quite valuable morphs and patterns. Let's just say you bought 12, and spent $500.

The seller assured you prior to shipment that ALL snakes had eaten frozen-thawed pinks at LEAST 5 times.

You get your shipment of 12 snakes, set them all up identically. Most of them thrive and are doing fantastically. 4 of them, not so much. 4 flat refuse any type of food, F/T, scented, P/K, live. You advise the seller you are having some feeding issues and never get a response. Within a 3 month period, despite attempts at assist feeding and tube feeding, 4 of the baby corns die.

What would you do in this situation? Would you contact the seller after 3 months and say "Hey, 4 out of 12 have died due to non-feeding, I want a refund/replacement/etc"? Would you not say anything at all?

Thanks for any input.

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

In this hypothetical situation, I will not name names or anything, I just want some advice on how best to deal with this situation.

Say you bought a large group of baby corn snakes, some of them quite valuable morphs and patterns. Let's just say you bought 12, and spent $500.

The seller assured you prior to shipment that ALL snakes had eaten frozen-thawed pinks at LEAST 5 times.

You get your shipment of 12 snakes, set them all up identically. Most of them thrive and are doing fantastically. 4 of them, not so much. 4 flat refuse any type of food, F/T, scented, P/K, live. You advise the seller you are having some feeding issues and never get a response. Within a 3 month period, despite attempts at assist feeding and tube feeding, 4 of the baby corns die.

What would you do in this situation? Would you contact the seller after 3 months and say "Hey, 4 out of 12 have died due to non-feeding, I want a refund/replacement/etc"? Would you not say anything at all?

Thanks for any input.

I would not say anything at all unless I had taken the animals to a Vet and discovered a preexisting problem.

Why?
1. I am supposed to be a breeder, and as such, it's my responsiblity to know how to handle the various issues that can arise from my own decision to be in this biz.

2. I can not hold the breeder responsible for an animal that fails to thrive without proof of a preexisting condition, because sometimes, it just works out that way. There is no "lifetime" guarantee when it comes to animals.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

I would not say anything at all unless I had taken the animals to a Vet and discovered a preexisting problem.

Why?
1. I am supposed to be a breeder, and as such, it's my responsiblity to know how to handle the various issues that can arise from my own decision to be in this biz.

2. I can not hold the breeder responsible for an animal that fails to thrive without proof of a preexisting condition, because sometimes, it just works out that way. There is no "lifetime" guarantee when it comes to animals.

Agreed, I'm aware there's no lifetime guarantee...It's not like it's 2-3 years down the road asking for a replacement

I just thought by him assuring his buyers the snakes had fed 5+ times, then the buyer receiving them and them NOT feeding, the buyer contacting the seller saying such, and then the snakes never feeding was grounds to say something. I dunno.

I just feel like, if this was me, and it was my situation, and I was the seller, and I had sold that large number of animals to someone and verified their setup, and had assured them the snakes had fed "x" number of times and then the animals never fed for the buyer, I would do my very best to make up for it and at the very least keep in contact..

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

Agreed, I'm aware there's no lifetime guarantee...It's not like it's 2-3 years down the road asking for a replacement

I just thought by him assuring his buyers the snakes had fed 5+ times, then the buyer receiving them and them NOT feeding, the buyer contacting the seller saying such, and then the snakes never feeding was grounds to say something. I dunno.

Honestly, I do understand. But I also know that a snake/reptile can be perfectly content one place and refuse to eat in another. I would have taken the animals to the Vet just to check out if I had a valid complaint.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

Honestly, I do understand. But I also know that a snake/reptile can be perfectly content one place and refuse to eat in another. I would have taken the animals to the Vet just to check out if I had a valid complaint.

You are SO right about that, I've experienced that firsthand..but it seems like they always come around at some point? It just seems odd in this situation that the majority were doing well, some siblings to the non-feeders from what I understand, and then these 4 just bomb out..

My friend Ben has a joke - if you have a snake that isn't feeding, pack it up, put it in an insulated box, throw it in a dark closet, wait 2 days, and then open it back up. It will think it's in a new place and start eating again

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

I just feel like, if this was me, and it was my situation, and I was the seller, and I had sold that large number of animals to someone and verified their setup, and had assured them the snakes had fed "x" number of times and then the animals never fed for the buyer, I would do my very best to make up for it and at the very least keep in contact..

I understand, that is what I would do, too. But unless there is proof of a preexisting condition, then I would consider myself SOL because there's no way to prove that those animals didn't die from something I did (even if the others are thriving).

I have two animals now..that I haven't hit on the right feeding combination yet. But they were eating perfectly for the two different sellers (and these are respectable sellers).


Also, someone just had a lot of Gecko's die...if she had just brought them, she would probably feel like you are feeling now. She had them for a while without issues.

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

You are SO right about that, I've experienced that firsthand..but it seems like they always come around at some point? It just seems odd in this situation that the majority were doing well, some siblings to the non-feeders from what I understand, and then these 4 just bomb out..

My friend Ben has a joke - if you have a snake that isn't feeding, pack it up, put it in an insulated box, throw it in a dark closet, wait 2 days, and then open it back up. It will think it's in a new place and start eating again

Maybe I need to try that one!

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

My friend Ben has a joke - if you have a snake that isn't feeding, pack it up, put it in an insulated box, throw it in a dark closet, wait 2 days, and then open it back up. It will think it's in a new place and start eating again

Yeah, but there is a flip side to that situation.

You can take a snake that IS feeding, pack it up, put it in an insulated box, throw it into a dark closet (or ship it to someone else), and it will then STOP eating.

Happens all of the time. I had quite a few instances of taking feeding corns to shows, then when I brought them back home they stopped feeding. Some were very tough to get started again. Nothing changed except they had a little trip to and from a show.

That is just the nature of the beast when dealing with live animals. They have their own little brains and do what the heck THEY want to do, regardless of what YOU want them to do.

Some individual snakes can be very sensitive about their surroundings. Heck, one time I put some hide boxes in with some of my smaller snakes, thinking they would like them. Half went off feed and wouldn't go back onto feed until I took the hide boxes OUT of their cages. Then to make things really fun, some of the others now went off of feed until I put the boxes BACK in with them.

You might as well get used to this kind of thing if you plan on working with live animals. It really does happen quite often. These things aren't just toaster ovens that only need to be plugged into the wall socket to do what they are supposed to do. It will be the equivalent of sometimes having a toaster oven that won't work if a stick of butter is sitting on the counter next to it.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Yeah, but there is a flip side to that situation.

You can take a snake that IS feeding, pack it up, put it in an insulated box, throw it into a dark closet (or ship it to someone else), and it will then STOP eating.

Happens all of the time. I had quite a few instances of taking feeding corns to shows, then when I brought them back home they stopped feeding. Some were very tough to get started again. Nothing changed except they had a little trip to and from a show.

That is just the nature of the beast when dealing with live animals. They have their own little brains and do what the heck THEY want to do, regardless of what YOU want them to do.

Some individual snakes can be very sensitive about their surroundings. Heck, one time I put some hide boxes in with some of my smaller snakes, thinking they would like them. Half went off feed and wouldn't go back onto feed until I took the hide boxes OUT of their cages. Then to make things really fun, some of the others now went off of feed until I put the boxes BACK in with them.

You might as well get used to this kind of thing if you plan on working with live animals. It really does happen quite often. These things aren't just toaster ovens that only need to be plugged into the wall socket to do what they are supposed to do. It will be the equivalent of sometimes having a toaster oven that won't work if a stick of butter is sitting on the counter next to it.

Thanks for the laugh!