16jan05...header won't post...
Hey Jean,
*
Appreciate the email and the comments... xxxxxxdeletedxxxxxxxx
*
This email is just between me and you.* Again, you know my stance on everything and how bad I feel, but I wanted to let you know that it was important to me that Sunshine stepped up and took care of this situation the way they did.* Believe me i know you would rather of just had the 3 cages a month ago in good shape and done with it... but having said that, I think Sunshine responded pretty well and stepped up to try and make things as good as they could get after this complete disaster.*
*
I didn't want to speak for sunshine, but I wanted to let you know friend to friend that I was going to fight for you with Sunshine if it came to that.* I expected them to handle the situation at this point about the way they did, but i didn't want to say anything in case I was wrong.* Bruce and Sam are two very good people... honest, integrity, and above all in my opinion i think it upsets them and hurts their feelings when things don't work out.* I know bc I am the same way.* This is supposed to be a fun hobby and not another headache.
*
It's not an excuse, good qualities don't make up for your hardship, but I am glad they did what they could to make it right.* I also wanted to let you know that it's pretty obvious to me that I have got myself into a situation that I was not prepared for, nor am I willing to continue.* I am going to stop selling the cages and remove them from our website, but I didn't want to do that until everything was resolved.
*
How did the other two cages come in?* Are they any better?* Just let me know when you get a chance.* I'd like to know how it all turns out to make sure it's all been taken care of.
*
Thanks Jean.
b'
*From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:10:57 AM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Cages-Sunshinecages
Attachments: There are 3 attachments
Hi Sam, I resent the e-mails, I am happier with these 2 , but they are not perfect. 1 has a crack on the side. the other is just cosmetic, the UVB is off and screws on cage bottom, and the plexiglass is cut long..My phone # is xxxxxdeletexx..I called my electrician brother, and he is going to come pick all 3 up and try to get them in working order, so I can house waking dragons soon...attaching another pic of crack/plexi/Uvb from today's cages...Jean*
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:27:59 AM US/Central
To: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: Re: Cages
Attachments: There are 4 attachments
B, I was going to suggest to you not to sell these cages until the bugs get worked out..I know they are good people..I have heard about Sam before, but these cages are junk right now. xxxxxxdeletedxxxx. My electrician brother is coming to pick all 3 cages up to and try to get them all in some kind of working order. the other 2 arrived yesterday, 1 has a crack and the other is just cosmetic, the UVB is broke off and screws are on cage bottom, plexiglass is cut long..I should of just went with precision this time..but, I think at some point Sam will have an excellent product. So, out of 3 cages , I have one that can be fixed to be in excellent condition. The other 2 have cracks..I have settled down some over this, **** happen and live goes on, and I try to be as understanding as possible..but I hope to recover some $$ as I will never recover the cost if I ever sell these. You should see "little man" I got from you..growing like a weed, he is catching his sister..she is at 210g., he is 150g. and turning red/orange like his dad. If he doesn't fill out he will not be a breeder, just my "little man" Thanks for all your help b, Jean (pics attached of yesterdays cages and the little man.)
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:28:00 AM US/Central
To:
SunshineDragons@aol.com
Cc:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Cages-Sunshinecages
Good Morning, My brother just come to pick up the cages to try to get them in working order for me today. I have one cage that will be in excellent condition after the uvb is remounted and the plexi is recut. The one from yesterday's delivery has one crack on the side, but is totally usable, and you know the first is pretty much a total loss. After paying $995.00 , i think i am pretty calm, huh? I ordered clear handles today from
www.tapplastics.com check them out ..nice handles..cheap.look under handles, hinges,latches..they would look outstanding on these cages.My brother is going to remount the Uvb more in the center, and when I save enough I am going to upgrade to a more durable fixture, like the pic I sent of my precisions. Hope all is well, and i will talk to you soon about the dragon cage, I will be your first test customer, if you so desire, and give my honest opinions. Bruce, I would like to purchase a red also when you have cluches ready. you have offered me pick of the clutch on one(free) as you said, I would like an unrelated 2nd if i can. (1.1 unrelated). Would that be OK.? Let me know, as I will put a deposit down if needed.I have wanted some Chris Allen bloodlines since before he stopped breeding. Hope all is well, Will talk soon...Jean
On Sunday, January 16, 2005, at 09:31 AM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com wrote:
Sam,
*
I agree with Jean on the Handle, and centering the uvb. Also the Fluorescent appear to need a stronger bolt or screw to hold them on.
Bruce
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:11:46 AM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: cages
Attachments: There are 4 attachments
I love my precisions, but I am open to change..As soon as I get these back from my brother, I will let you know about the ease of the downward doors.Handles are a must thou, for me anyway. And I would upgrade to a better UVB. The price you are charging demands this, one positioned in the middle projected downward, as on the precisions.Also I like these clear Plexi hinges and handles, they are way more appealing to look at than white hinges. Jean
In a message dated 1/15/2005 1:57:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
*From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:52:54 AM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: cages
And one more thing, If you are going to get reimbursed thru Fedex, A little cash my way would really help, to pay my brother ,handles,latches I ordered today, UVB upgrade,and to help defray the value these cages now hold not the $995 I paid.. Just a thought..Jean
On Sunday, January 16, 2005, at 10:40 AM,
cagecrafters@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Jean, Bruce just forwarded a couple of emails to me that were from you.* For some reason, I got picture emails with no notes and he got note emails with no pics, so I was confused.* I am glad the other 2 cages came in in better condition then the first.* Althou I am unsure why that acrylic is sticking out on one end, because both were fit perfectly flush with the end walls of the cage when I built them.* If you need any help with any repairs please let me know and I can send patch panels, or hardware or what ever you need to fix the problems.**
*
And any other changes in our cages that you would reccommend would be appreicieted.* Constructive critisism is something I take to heart, as I want to put the very BEST cage out to the public.* The door handles are a great idea and will add to our cage line.* I had seen them months ago and thought I should try them out, but never did.* Also, on your cage from Lovell, i noticed his doors are hinged from the side to open out rather then down, do you like that set up better then a fold down door? is it easier to get into the cage that way?* Also, do you like having 2 smaller doors rather then 1 large door?* Sorry for all of the questions, but like I said, other peoples opinions will help me achive the goal I am trying to reach.* Thanks for all of your patience and critisism, and I sincerely appologize for your bad experience.
*
Stay safe, and get well.*
*
Sam Craver
Cage Crafters
That is more than fair. We will also offer any additional cages at a reduction, as well as any Dragons at a reduction besides the free cage, and Dragon.
*
In addition when you are breeding and selling we will link you to our site, if you have a web site or address you would like us to use for your dragons. We are only linking one other Dragon Breeder to our site.
*
Bruce
..Please keep the money for the broken cage and
we will square up with a pick of the clutch male and a dragon
cage..Does that sound fair? Let me know , Jean
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:52:54 AM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: cages
And one more thing, If you are going to get reimbursed thru Fedex, A little cash my way would really help, to pay my brother ,handles,latches I ordered today, UVB upgrade,and to help defray the value these cages now hold not the $995 I paid.. Just a thought..Jean
On Sunday, January 16, 2005, at 10:40 AM,
cagecrafters@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Jean, Bruce just forwarded a couple of emails to me that were from you.* For some reason, I got picture emails with no notes and he got note emails with no pics, so I was confused.* I am glad the other 2 cages came in in better condition then the first.* Althou I am unsure why that acrylic is sticking out on one end, because both were fit perfectly flush with the end walls of the cage when I built them.* If you need any help with any repairs please let me know and I can send patch panels, or hardware or what ever you need to fix the problems.**
*
And any other changes in our cages that you would reccommend would be appreicieted.* Constructive critisism is something I take to heart, as I want to put the very BEST cage out to the public.* The door handles are a great idea and will add to our cage line.* I had seen them months ago and thought I should try them out, but never did.* Also, on your cage from Lovell, i noticed his doors are hinged from the side to open out rather then down, do you like that set up better then a fold down door? is it easier to get into the cage that way?* Also, do you like having 2 smaller doors rather then 1 large door?* Sorry for all of the questions, but like I said, other peoples opinions will help me achive the goal I am trying to reach.* Thanks for all of your patience and critisism, and I sincerely appologize for your bad experience.
*
Stay safe, and get well.*
*
Sam Craver
Cage Crafters
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:06:44 AM US/Central
To: Brandon Nature <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: cages
B, I had my brother come pick these cages up yesterday, he is an electrician, to try to repair them on my $$, after spending $995.00 for them and have decided it is not worth fixing. I e-mailed Sam/Bruce last night and I have asked to send these cages back for a refund.Just to keep you in the loop...Jean
rom: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:20:59 AM US/Central
To: "'jean hubert'" <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Subject: RE: cages
Thanks for the email, I did get it. I agree with you it's not worth the
extra cost.
b'
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:08:28 AM US/Central
To: Brandon Nature <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: Fwd: cages
B, I hope you can go to bat to me one more time..I have dragons everywhere, trying to house them..I want to send these cages back, and need a refund ASAP, I have talked to Precision and they will rush cages to me. These cages need a lot done, even the $6.00 UVB need to be replaced because they hum like mad, these cages don't even have handles..I have not got an answer yet from Sam/Bruce..But I have no use for these, when I can order complete cages ......Jean
From:
If fedex will pay anything, I would surely pay for your work on the cages.* I'm not going to hold my breath though, they have never paid a claim yet.*
*
Sam
From:
In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:47:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
*
We realize the situation, and we are very upset with it. We also understand how it is negatively affecting you. We have offered several options, and also realize that you would rather have just had what your ordered, yet we are not sure how to immediately rectify the situation. Obviously it is not what we wanted for you.
*
Please let us know what realistic solution you may have in mind. We are willing to attempt almost anything to correct the situation. Our sincerest apologizes.
*
Bruce
*
*
Bruce/Sam, this Is a picture of my world today, Yes, I agree no one
needs any more stress right now...But, I still don't have cages for my
dragons. My WHOLE BREEDING PROGRAM IS BEING THROWN OFF BECAUSE I CAN'T
GET MY DRAGONS OUT OF BRUMATION because i don't have 1 proper cage to
put them in, still. My brother looked at them and said he can try , but
they need a lot of work..And they still will look flawed. I paid for
NEW cages..And I got cracked,broken plexiglass, subpar UVB fixtures
that hum loudly,etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc..What would you do or think if
you were me..the customer??..My big concern is my dragons..I am trying
to be nice, but it is hard..These cages are not worth, even close, to
what I paid now. My brother is not a cage builder, and I am sure they
will look like it when he is done..So, I am not sure what to do..If I
pack them good and send them back you all have a chance at fixing them
correctly and reselling them..That was my thought anyway. All I ever*
wanted is 3 NEW cages to put my dragons in..that is all, very simple,
but that is not what I got. Jean
*
Regards,
In a message dated 1/18/2005 8:45:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
I am leaving with my son for College. We will give you a refund, yet don't buy other cages if you can use the ones we shipped temporarily.
*
I will talk to Sam about the refund, and hope we can do it today, yet I believe we are able to have it in*a week. We have put all our cash into construction, and materials, therefore it may take us a bit, and some scrambling.
*
In addition we still plan to honor our offer of a Dragon, and Free Quality Condition cage to you.
*
My deepest apologies, and regrets*for the inconvience. We hope to be able to satisfy you in the future.
*
Please keep in touch and let me know how you are doing.*
*
bruce
Bruce, Can you send me boxes so I can repack these and send them back?
I would like a refund , and order precisions TODAY. I know I will be
happy from the get-go with them. I need to act today, so I maybe, will
have cages by Feb/Mar. I will go out today and spend more money and buy
temp housing for my breeders, or keep your cages until I get my new
precisions and send these back to you .But, I do not have the cash to
order more cages , so I need a refund. How do that sound? Let's please
final a decision today, because this whole ordeal is giving me a
headache...Jean
On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 02:05* AM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com
wrote:
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:56:53 PM US/Central
To:
SunshineDragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: Relax, don't stress, do what is convient for you. Your the customer!
Bruce, No thanks, According to my brother, will cost me the at least the other 50% to fix, and they still will look like my brother fixed them..hehe...I just want to order precisions ASAP.They will be complete and I already know they work for me.. He is waiting for payment, and said he will rush cages..If you want these returned, send me 3 boxes and I will ship them back after I receive my new cages. Jean
On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 07:20 PM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 1/18/2005 9:30:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
*
If you are willing to keep these cages, we will give you a 50% discount on each of them, yet still offer you a free Dragon Value $250+ and a Free Cage $275+.
*
Let me know.
*
Your decision, no pressure.
*
Bruce
Bruce, that sound's good..I will get these 3 cages back from my
brother..start waking up my dragons, and order precisions..please
refund via paypal to xxxxxxxxxxx..If you want these back
after my precisions arrive, I will repack them and send them to you..I
do still want to* purchase an additional dragon from you also, in
additional to the one you have offered..Talk soon..Jean
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:46:42 AM US/Central
To:
SunshineDragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: Relax, don't stress, do what is convient for you. Your the customer!
xxxxxdeletedxxxxxxxxx
.I think you will have an excellent product, once you have the bugs worked out, we need a cage builder that can deliver an outstanding product with lighting fast turn time..That is the key. If you follow the BOI at all, all the bitching over cages if usually turn around time. If you can corner that market with a quality product , fast turn time, you will do excellent. Also look at your shipping fee, I can order a 48" for 50 some dollar for shipping from precision. I was really questioning that, when I ordered from you. I will have no problem ordering my future cages from you if them goals are met. xxxxxxxdeletedxxxxxxxxxxxOn Wednesday, January 19, 2005, at 04:16 AM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 1/18/2005 8:53:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
Bruce, No thanks, According to my brother, will cost me the at least
the other 50% to fix, and they still will look like my brother fixed
them..hehe...I just want to order precisions ASAP.They will be complete
and I already know they work for me.. He is waiting for payment, and
said he will rush cages..If you want these returned, send me 3 boxes
and I will ship them back after I receive my new cages. Jean
On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 07:20* PM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com
wrote:
Jean,
*
I said keep them for your convince . I just thought if they could be fixed easily and cheaply it would work for both of us. We will refund you the money, yet don't spend money on temporary cages.
*
Wait until you see some of the offspring, and the new cages with the proper packing?
*
Feel better. Obviously we want to get this behind us, and make the improvements/adjustments needed ASAP. Too much too soon for us. Yet we are confident we will be on the right track. xxxxdeletedxxxxx. LOLFrom: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:17:27 PM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: return of cages/refund
Sam/Bruce..When I got home from work just now, there was a Fex Ex pick-up slip on my door to pick up a damaged package, Its says to leave it outside tomorrow..Do you know what this is about? I am trying to work full-time and am still sick, with a central line in, if you want these shipped back ,you will need to give me some time.I will need help getting them boxed ,as the boxes they came in are in pieces...And I do not have the cages, they are at my brother's..Please let me know ASAP what is up with this situation...Jean
rom:
Jean, I dont know why Fedex was there to pick up anything, I did not even file the claim yet.* I would just ignore it.* I think we are all still up in the air about whats going on with the cages anyway, right?*
*
I got your email last night, and if your looking for compensation for the extra work and money you are putting into the cages, just let me know how much I owe you and I will send it to you.* I think it would be much easier on the both of us if we did it that way, rather then ship the cages again.* Let me know what you think.
*
*
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:43:15 AM US/Central
To: Brandon Nature <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: Re: cages
B, UPDATE--should of ordered precisions from the get-go..lesson learned..This morning , we have agreed on a refund, but they don't have the cash right now, maybe next week.. So, I am getting these cracked, broken cages back from my brother, using them so I can wake my brumating breeders. I have offered to send these cages back after i get my precision's. They still are giving me a pick of the clutch, and a dragon cage..which I think is fair, for all the hassle. Jean
In a message dated 1/17/2005 9:13:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
*
Keep the cages. Use them as you see fit. We will work with you in any manner you feel comfortable and deem fair. Should you want a full refund, we will do that, and still give you a Free cage, and Free pick of the litter of any clutch of Reds (Scar, Lucifer, Flame, Siren, etc). There is no sense in shipping them back.
*
First you may be able to use them, until you decide how you will proceed.
*
Two it is too much hardship on you to ship back.
*
Three if shipped back, they will surely be destroyed in transit.
*
Fourth and most important, you don't need any additional stress in your life right now, your health comes first!
*
Unless Fed Ex is Picking them up to refund us for the Damage, which Sam May be aware of, I don't see the purpose of shipping them back*by Fed ex.
*
Relax as much as you can, and use the cages to help you out while you decide what you want to do. If you have any questions you may call me Tuesday, Tomorrow on my cell at 215-801-5353.
*
Again. Not to worry. This experience is no longer about Money, it is about reducing any stress, or anxiety on you, and helping you house your animals until you can replace the cages.* I am attaching pictures of just some of the Reds were are Breeding, and we believe they will be some of the best in the market. We have 25 people already on a waiting list.
*
This has not been a good experience >>Murphy's Law. It is up to us to make it right, and for you & us*to make it as easy on you as possible.
*
Just focus on your health, and family. We take responsibility for the cage mishap.
Bruce
From:
In a message dated 1/18/2005 9:30:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
*
If you are willing to keep these cages, we will give you a 50% discount on each of them, yet still offer you a free Dragon Value $250+ and a Free Cage $275+.
*
Let me know.
*
Your decision, no pressure.
*
Bruce
Bruce, that sound's good..I will get these 3 cages back from my
brother..start waking up my dragons, and order precisions..please
refund via paypal to xxdeletedxxxx..If you want thesxxxxxe back
after my precisions arrive, I will repack them and send them to you..I
do still want to* purchase an additional dragon from you also, in
additional to the one you have offered..Talk soon..Jean
Jean,
*
I said keep them for your convince . I just thought if they could be fixed easily and cheaply it would work for both of us. We will refund you the money, yet don't spend money on temporary cages.
*
Wait until you see some of the offspring, and the new cages with the proper packing?
*
Feel better. Obviously we want to get this behind us, and make the improvements/adjustments needed ASAP. Too much too soon for us. Yet we are confident we will be on the right track. The weather is slowing our construction and production down. The weather is also freezing the plate in my neck, and the bolts, the Defibulator in my chest, and the screws, and wires in my foot. I think I will be the first real bionic man. How do you oil stuff in your body. LOL
*
Bruce
*
Jean I hope things work out okay with that... xxxxxxdeletedxxxxxxxx* Don't let the cages stress you out anymore than they have... i know Bruce already mentioned it, but that's the important thing right now.
*
Thanks for the info and update on the cages.. I have been following and discussing things with Bruce and Sam.* I got your email the night you asked about getting back to you that day and I talked to Bruce and saw that he had emailed you, so I didn't pursue it until you guys had a chance to work it out.* I knew he was in the process of talking with Sam and coming up with a soution.* I just wanted to let you know that I was involved with making sure that happened and didn't forget about making this right for you.
*
Thanks for the pix... i def see what you are talking about.* Dragon looks fantastic... now if we can ever get him setup in a good cage!!!!!!!* I'm glad that dragon worked out well for you... i was pretty sure he would catch up and all.. but you never know.* I'm glad he went to you.
*
Please let me know the final result.. i know things have been going back and forth... but just let me know when you receive your refund so I know I can step inside and let you and Bruce work out compensation.* That's not something I should be involved with I just want to make sure you're happy with the end result.
*
Thanks Jean,
bFrom: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:23:32 AM US/Central
To: "'jean hubert'" <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Subject: RE: cages
Yea, Bruce let me know about that. I think that's decent and as good as a
fix right now as possible i guess. As I asked before, just please let me
know when you get the refund so I know it's all taken care of. I want to
make absolutely sure this is fixed. I know Bruce doesn't have the cash
right now to refund you or he would.. he's not trying to delay getting you
the money. If you haven't gotten your refund by the end of next week let me
know so I can do what I can.
b'
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:28:56 AM US/Central
To:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: One more thing
Bruce, I had 2nd Fed Ex pick-up notice on my door when I got home from work again last night. Second attempt to pick-up damaged package..Just an FYI...Jean
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:28:37 AM US/Central
To:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: One more thing
Bruce, Fed Ex just called to pick up the damaged cage..I did not answer..What to do? Jean
From:
***This is when the whole situation changed..I think Bruce told me to keep the cages without consulting with Sam,who was filing a claim when I said I would try to get my brother to fix them? collect double money??And the slips showed on my door,they acted like they did not know why and to ignore them...
In a message dated 1/19/2005 8:24:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhubert1@longlines.com writes:
*
Jean,
*
We can't help yet to be confused and disappointed.
*
1-We realized that the first cage was not delivered the way it was supposed to and you asked us to stop the shipment of the next two.
*
2-We asked you to refuse the cages as we couldn't stop them. Yet you accepted them, and told us you would keep them. At that point we offered to overcompensate you with a Free cage, and a Dragon.
*
3- Then you wrote saying you changed your mind and didn't want them. I just spoke to Sam and he put in a claim to Fed Ex. They Wanted to pick them up. In which case we may or may not have collected on a claim. As I was out yesterday,*I hadn't realized Fed Ex Was picking them up due to our claim of damage. I thought they were just shipping them back as you didn't want them? At that point we felt obligated to still attempt to make good on your inconvience.
*
4-Now, your last two E-mails say it would cost too much to fix ( which for you may be more of an inconvience than a real $ cost from the pictures we saw), and you don't want the cages.
*
5-Today you sent 2 E-mails saying Fed Ex wanted to pick up Damaged cages for a claim. Yes, if Fed Ex came to pick up the cages to rectify their damages to the cages you should give them to them, not avoid Fed Ex. We will be losing over $1,000. If they settle on the claim we can all come out better off. I had no idea Fed Ex was coming to pick up the cages to satisfy the Claim, especially since I told you I was away yesterday.
*
I have to say I feel confused*by your not refusing the cages when we first asked you to. I am also confused with you, than saying you would keep them, than not keeping them, than not giving them to Fed Ex for a Claim.
*
Anyone would *have to look at this and wonder what the heck is going on, and although we were doing everything possible to make good, it just doesn't appear you reciprocated that approach. We don't understand why. This is a lot of money for you, as well as us, and if Fed Ex makes Good we all could out better , even if we are all inconvienced.
*
Please explain, and Please give the cages to fed ex*they may take them*without boxes just a label? Any Effort is appreciated.*We both need the money.
*
I know you are disappointed, yet after the all*good faith we attempted to show, it is difficult to understand your actions, without some questioning to you consideration of our difficulties, and financial situation.
*
At this point we need to get the cages back to Fed Ex_all of them ASAP, and we need to reconsider our position.
*
xxxxdeletedxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx .
*
This situation needs to be mutually corrected, in a fair and considerate manner. Neither of us needs the stress. Maybe I just misunderstood what went on, yet it appears to be confusing, and not consistent. It put me in a situation that is confusing, no matter what*we* attempted to resolve it. The switching back and forth has also put us in a real financial bind. I am sure that wasn't your intention, yet the inconsistencies are now having a negative impact on everything we attempted to do to correct the situation for both of us.
*
We now need to*get the cages**for Fed Ex, and get back to us. I am sure you must agree that if they reimburse us, we all will be in a better situation.
*
Our intentions were always with your best interest in mind, and to correct a mistake. I believe we acted with integrity, honesty, and with your interest in mind*at all times. I am now very confused as we are in an unenviable situation no mater what we do.
*
Bruce
Bruce, Fed Ex just called to pick up the damaged cage..I did not
answer..What to do? Jean
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:51:07 AM US/Central
To:
SunshineDragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: One more thing
Bruce, I was trying to help you guys out, I had my brother look at them, and they will be too costly and not worth the money to repair..how hard is that to understand ?You shipped broken cages. You told me to use these cages, now you say to give them to fed ex? You said you could not stop the 2nd shipment from fed ex. You told me to ignore Fed ex. You are sadly mistaken , bruce. Maybe we will let the BOI take a look at the situation.. After nov, dec, and part of jan I still don't have cages for my dragons, bruce... Jean
On Wednesday, January 19, 2005, at 09:27 AM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com wrote:
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:52:16 AM US/Central
To: Brandon Nature <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: Re: One more thing
B, I think this is going to get ugly, and I sure don't want it too..help...Jean
On Wednesday, January 19, 2005, at 09:27* AM,
SunshineDragons@aol.com
wrote
Jean
*
I don't respond to Threats very well. I brought up several issues which concerned us, and confused me. I don't* Respond to BOI, nor do I appreciate the gossip, and pettiness that people put on there. I might as well watch Jerry Springer.
*
Worst of all, after all our conversations to rectify the situation in a positive, proactive, friendly manner, I do not take it lightly that If legitimate questions are asked you become agitated, and believe that BOI is a way to resolve the issue, nor use it as a Threat. That is a disappointment, and is not a way to motivate us to resolve any request.
*
At this point we wish you to return the cages to Fed Ex, as they requested for damage inspection. Hopefully they will refund the money, and there is no monetary issue. I am not sure why that request results in anger, and threats. As for your immediate situation, that is a detail that we have been and will continue to work with you.
*
Customer Comments (Testimonials?)
Hello Jean, Hope you are well.
*
Bruce just forwarded me your email conversations and I am a little confused also.* If you would have did what we told you to do in the first place*, refuse the second order of cages, we would not be in this situation now.* The first cage came in damaged, I understand that and you will be fully compensated for that.* The other 2 cages were to be refused by you so they would come directly back to us.* You ignored that and accepted the cages.* The pictures you emailed me of the second shippment of cages showed 1 cage had a small crack in one of the corners, easily fixable with just pvc cement, and the second cage, the light fixture had fell off of the ceiling due to the fasteners coming out, about 2 minutes to re-screw them in.* At this point you emailed Bruce and Me, saying the cages came in much better and they were easily fixable and you were going to keep them.* I then emailed you back stating "if you need any help or any materials to make the repairs just to let me know and I would do what ever I could to help you with that."* And I also told you I was filing a claim with fedex on the damaged cage.* I called fedex about the claim and they sent me the appropriet forms.* During that time Fedex come to your place to pick up the damaged cage (cage #1)* I told you, I had not gotten the paperwork into fedex yet for the claim so wait until I get the forms in.* I got the forms in and fedex has been to your place to pick the cage up 2 times and you failed to get the cage to them, why I do not know.* THEN Fedex CALLS you to tell you they are coming to pick it up and you dont answer the call because you see it is them calling?* Why?* Why would you not want to speak to them?* The sooner the claim gets in the sooner we can rectify the first damaged*cage.* And somewhere in between all of that mess, you emailed Bruce stating the repairs to the cages were going to be to costly.* How can that be, one has a very small crack which can be easily fixed with plain clear pvc cement which costs about $2 and the other cage only needed to have the 2 screws put back into the light fixture.* And I saw somewhere you were going to upgrade the flourescent fixtures to bigger ones...* What you upgrade on the cages is totally up to you, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the cages you ordered, we offer the upgrades to those same fixtures at a very minimal cost, you ordered cages with the standard equipment, but I even offered to pay for*your upgrades*as well.* And we also offered you a FREE Bearded Dragon Cage and Bruce offered you FREE first pick of the litter from his Scar breedings to over compensate for your trouble.* And somewhere in these emails you said we shipped you a broken cage, which is totally not true in any sense.* Fedex damaged the cage and that is why a claim was put in.* And I remember you emailing me saying that if fedex pays the claim you should be compensated even more for your trouble.** And I agreed to that to.*
*
What more can we do here Jean, we have bent over backwards to help correct the situation and you keep changing your mind in every direction.* And then you expected us to refund your money, you USE the cages while you ordered cages from someone else, and when they came in you send us back USED cages?*
*
Talk about being taken advantage of.*
*
We are willing to work with you however we possibly can.* But the first thing that has to happen is you getting the cages back to fedex.* When and if the claims are filled, we will reimburse you for the cages from that claim.* If the claim is not filled we will get a refund to you asap.* You know we are a new cage comapany and are very limited on funds.* We are out the time, materials and shipping costs of the cages we shipped you and we gave you a discount on top of all of that.*
*
I saw in your email that you are threating takeing this to the BOI.* And I am going to say this, if that will make you feel any better about the situation, please do so.* The BOI is nothing but a place where people go and whine.* Credibility from the BOI just doesnt hold up.* We work hard to put out a nice cage at a nice price and have always been ontop of customer service, and I think we went way beyond that for you.* And it wasnt to keep our name of the BOI, it was to comfort your situation the best we could.*
*
Have a nice day, and be well.* Please get the cages back to fedex because I am now filing claims on all of them.
*
Regards,
Sam Craver
Cage Crafters
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:49:55 PM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: Re: cage situation
this is direct quote from you:>Thirdly, as Sam may have mentioned , don't refuse the other two cages. Hopefully they will arrive in tact, if not you may still be able to use them. This will not affect any economic reimbursement.
I said keep them for your convince . I just thought if they could be fixed easily and cheaply it would work for both of us. We will refund you the money, yet don't spend money on temporary cages.
Do you want more quotes form both of you...Jean
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:58:53 PM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: more
Keep the cages. Use them as you see fit. We will work with you in any manner you feel comfortable and deem fair. Should you want a full refund, we will do that, and still give you a Free cage, and Free pick of the litter of any clutch of Reds (Scar, Lucifer, Flame, Siren, etc). There is no sense in shipping them back.
*
First you may be able to use them, until you decide how you will proceed.
*
Two it is too much hardship on you to ship back.
*
Three if shipped back, they will surely be destroyed in transit.
*
Fourth and most important, you don't need any additional stress in your life right now, your health comes first!
*
Unless Fed Ex is Picking them up to refund us for the Damage, which Sam May be aware of, I don't see the purpose of shipping them back*by Fed ex.
*
am leaving with my son for College. We will give you a refund, yet don't buy other cages if you can use the ones we shipped temporarily.
*
I will talk to Sam about the refund, and hope we can do it today, yet I believe we are able to have it in*a week. We have put all our cash into construction, and materials, therefore it may take us a bit, and some scrambling.
*
In addition we still plan to honor our offer of a Dragon, and Free Quality Condition cage to you.
*
My deepest apologies, and regrets*for the inconvience. We hope to be able to satisfy you in the future.
*
Please keep in touch and let me know how you are doing.*
I said keep them for your convince . I just thought if they could be fixed easily and cheaply it would work for both of us. We will refund you the money, yet don't spend money on temporary cages.
*
Wait until you see some of the offspring, and the new cages with the proper packing?
*
want more? Jean
From: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:18:46 AM US/Central
To: "'jean hubert'" <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Subject: RE: what to do
Hey Jean,
I have not had a chance to talk to Bruce today about the situation... I got
your emails late last night but didn't want to respond until I know
something good or bad. I am quite confused as well about what is going
on... there seems to be a lot of miscommunication and i"m not sure i've
gotten all the emails and what is up and what is not up.
I am going to email bruce/sam right now and see what I can find out and get
this resolved for you. Personally, I would hold off on posting on the BOI
for the simple fact if you make them mad, it will make it harder to get a
response from them. However, if that's something you feel you need to do,
then i'm not by any means encouraging you not too... but I would wait a day
and see what I can find out before this takes a turn for the worse. Right
now I have to believe there is a lot of communication problems.
I'm going to email bruce right now... let me see what I can find out.. I
will email you this afternoon as soon as I hear something back good or bad.
Pray for me.
b'
-----Original Message-----
From: jean hubert [mailto:jhubert1@longlines.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:06 AM
To: Brandon Nature
Subject: what to do
B, Do you a heads up on what they intend to do, I am composing this
drama for the BOI and my Credit card company, if they do not respond
today. I see you have been to the board, should I post this experience?
I do not want to cause any hardship, it is not in my nature, but this
whole deal went wrong. I tried to be nice, and they have twisted the
story every day to suit them. I am shocked by their behavior. Can you
give me some guidence, because I trust you...Jean
From: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:25:20 AM US/Central
To: "'jean hubert'" <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Subject: RE: what to do
No problem.. i am emailing them right now.. lets see what they say.
email you as soon as i know.
b'
-----Original Message-----
From: jean hubert [mailto:jhubert1@longlines.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:22 AM
To: Brandon - Dragons by Nature
Subject: Re: what to do
B, Sounds good..Thank You...Jean -- If you want all the e-mail
exchanges so you can take a third party look-see, I will forward you
them all ..Again, Thanks...
On Thursday, January 20, 2005, at 08:18 AM, Brandon - Dragons by
Nature wrote:
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:22:12 PM US/Central
To:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Subject: refund
Bruce/Sam, Am I reading the e-mail's I have received correctly ? Let me know if I have misinterpeted them..I really felt threatened this morning, Bruce..I don't know why you would say those things..I thought we were working together on this? I asked for a refund, you said OK, I told you I would ship these back, you said no,don't go but temp housing. I asked about fed ex, Sam said to ignore them. So, why now are you like this? Would you like me to resend those e-mails so you can review them together and get on the same page..All I ask is that you refund my money, I asked you to send me 3 boxes and I will repack these and return them..I need to order NEW cages Now..
.Please let us know what realistic solution you may have in mind. We are willing to attempt almost anything to correct the situation. Our sincerest apologizes.
*
Bruce
*Bruce, that sound's good..I will get these 3 cages back from my brother..start waking up my dragons, and order precisions..please refund via paypal to
jhubert1@longlines.com..If you want these back after my precisions arrive, I will repack them and send them to you..I do still want to purchase an additional dragon from you also, in additional to the one you have offered..Talk soon..Jean
Jean,
*
Keep the cages. Use them as you see fit. We will work with you in any manner you feel comfortable and deem fair. Should you want a full refund, we will do that, and still give you a Free cage, and Free pick of the litter of any clutch of Reds (Scar, Lucifer, Flame, Siren, etc). There is no sense in shipping them back.
*
First you may be able to use them, until you decide how you will proceed.
*
Two it is too much hardship on you to ship back.
*
Three if shipped back, they will surely be destroyed in transit.
*
Fourth and most important, you don't need any additional stress in your life right now, your health comes first!
*
Unless Fed Ex is Picking them up to refund us for the Damage, which Sam May be aware of, I don't see the purpose of shipping them back*by Fed ex.
*
Relax as much as you can, and use the cages to help you out while you decide what you want to do. If you have any questions you may call me Tuesday, Tomorrow on my cell at 215-801-5353.
*
Again. Not to worry. This experience is no longer about Money, it is about reducing any stress, or anxiety on you, and helping you house your animals until you can replace the cages.* I am attaching pictures of just some of the Reds were are Breeding, and we believe they will be some of the best in the market. We have 25 people already on a waiting list.
*
This has not been a good experience >>Murphy's Law. It is up to us to make it right, and for you & us*to make it as easy on you as possible.
*
Just focus on your health, and family. We take responsibility for the cage mishap.
Bruce
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:05:41 PM US/Central
To:
sunshinedragons@aol.com
Cc:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Subject: Fwd: cage situation
You told me bruce, not to refuse the 2nd order, remember? you never once told me fed ex was coming to pick these up. I emailed you guys and asked YOU if they were picking these up, I needed more time to get them back from my brother and packed properly. read thru the e-mails , its all there...The cages are broke and I have asked for a refund, very simple, bruce told me to keep the cages, and offered me a dragon, and a bearded dragon cage for the hassle, remember? I told you I would ship these back , if so desired, you bruce told me to keep them, and not to buy temp caging. I even asked you to ship me 3 boxes if you wanted these back after I receive my new cages, remember.. I, nor my brother are cage builders and I ordered new cages, these are broke, very simple .Bruce told me to use the cages, Sam..I think you need to talk to each other..Because I have the e-mails..please read them carefully... Please refund my money...and I will order cages and when they come I will set up a date to return these cages to you. That is all I ask. I expected new cages along time ago, and that is all I want, Is new, non cracked,functioning properly cages for my dragons..YOU offered the dragon, and the Bearded dragon cage for my hassle, and let me tell you this has not been a hassle it has been a holy nightmare...What am I to put my waking dragons in bruce while I wait for caging, now you want me to go out and but temp housing after you told me to keep there cages and use them? I don't get it, or am I missing something? Jean
Begin forwarded message:
From:
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:20:27 AM US/Central
To:
jhubert1@longlines.com
Subject: cage situation
Hello Jean, Hope you are well.
*
Bruce just forwarded me your email conversations and I am a little confused also.* If you would have did what we told you to do in the first place*, refuse the second order of cages, we would not be in this situation now.* The first cage came in damaged, I understand that and you will be fully compensated for that.* The other 2 cages were to be refused by you so they would come directly back to us.* You ignored that and accepted the cages.* The pictures you emailed me of the second shippment of cages showed 1 cage had a small crack in one of the corners, easily fixable with just pvc cement, and the second cage, the light fixture had fell off of the ceiling due to the fasteners coming out, about 2 minutes to re-screw them in.* At this point you emailed Bruce and Me, saying the cages came in much better and they were easily fixable and you were going to keep them.* I then emailed you back stating "if you need any help or any materials to make the repairs just to let me know and I would do what ever I could to help you with that."* And I also told you I was filing a claim with fedex on the damaged cage.* I called fedex about the claim and they sent me the appropriet forms.* During that time Fedex come to your place to pick up the damaged cage (cage #1)* I told you, I had not gotten the paperwork into fedex yet for the claim so wait until I get the forms in.* I got the forms in and fedex has been to your place to pick the cage up 2 times and you failed to get the cage to them, why I do not know.* THEN Fedex CALLS you to tell you they are coming to pick it up and you dont answer the call because you see it is them calling?* Why?* Why would you not want to speak to them?* The sooner the claim gets in the sooner we can rectify the first damaged*cage.* And somewhere in between all of that mess, you emailed Bruce stating the repairs to the cages were going to be to costly.* How can that be, one has a very small crack which can be easily fixed with plain clear pvc cement which costs about $2 and the other cage only needed to have the 2 screws put back into the light fixture.* And I saw somewhere you were going to upgrade the flourescent fixtures to bigger ones...* What you upgrade on the cages is totally up to you, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the cages you ordered, we offer the upgrades to those same fixtures at a very minimal cost, you ordered cages with the standard equipment, but I even offered to pay for*your upgrades*as well.* And we also offered you a FREE Bearded Dragon Cage and Bruce offered you FREE first pick of the litter from his Scar breedings to over compensate for your trouble.* And somewhere in these emails you said we shipped you a broken cage, which is totally not true in any sense.* Fedex damaged the cage and that is why a claim was put in.* And I remember you emailing me saying that if fedex pays the claim you should be compensated even more for your trouble.** And I agreed to that to.*
*
What more can we do here Jean, we have bent over backwards to help correct the situation and you keep changing your mind in every direction.* And then you expected us to refund your money, you USE the cages while you ordered cages from someone else, and when they came in you send us back USED cages?*
*
Talk about being taken advantage of.*
*
We are willing to work with you however we possibly can.* But the first thing that has to happen is you getting the cages back to fedex.* When and if the claims are filled, we will reimburse you for the cages from that claim.* If the claim is not filled we will get a refund to you asap.* You know we are a new cage comapany and are very limited on funds.* We are out the time, materials and shipping costs of the cages we shipped you and we gave you a discount on top of all of that.*
*
I saw in your email that you are threating takeing this to the BOI.* And I am going to say this, if that will make you feel any better about the situation, please do so.* The BOI is nothing but a place where people go and whine.* Credibility from the BOI just doesnt hold up.* We work hard to put out a nice cage at a nice price and have always been ontop of customer service, and I think we went way beyond that for you.* And it wasnt to keep our name of the BOI, it was to comfort your situation the best we could.*
*
Have a nice day, and be well.* Please get the cages back to fedex because I am now filing claims on all of them.
*
Regards,
Sam Craver
Cage Crafters
From: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:24:21 PM US/Central
To: "'jean hubert'" <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Subject: RE: what to do
Hi Jean,
Okay, I just got off the phone with Bruce and he's quite confused over the
situation... but we have resolved the issue. All you need to do is call
FedEx and have them come pick up the cages and that way get the claim filed
so Sunshine can get their money back so they can refund you. It's a done
deal.
Let me know if you can get that done today so I can let Bruce know. Also,
if you have a phone number where Bruce can give you a call and go over
things on the phone please let me know.
Let's make sure this happens right away so we can get your money back asap.
Thanks Jean,
rom: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:47:12 PM US/Central
To:
sunshinedragons@aol.com,
cagecrafters@comcast.net
Cc: Brandon Nature <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: let's resolve this situation by tomorrow
All, Let's resolve this by tomorrow, because it is making me ill..If I do not hear from both of you, so we all are on the same page, by tomorrow, I will sadly turn this over to my credit card company to resolve. I hate to see it come to this, but I cannot take this day after day. I think there was a lot of misunderstanding, and by the sound of the e-mails from both of you, you are not communicating well with each other. We are all adult and I hope we can come to some understanding. I am off work tomorrow, so i will be watching for an e-mail so we can resolve this sad situation. Jean
From: jean hubert <jhubert1@longlines.com>
Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:57:12 PM US/Central
To: "Brandon - Dragons by Nature" <brandon@dragonsbynature.com>
Subject: Re: what to do
Attachments: There is 1 attachment
B, I don't have cages for all my dragons..I will have to go out and buy housing..I just got out of the hospital and don't have to extra cash. Everyone is up...How long is it going to take for a refund..another month? Also I have a central line in and cannot lift anything, so I will need to get someone over to help me..These are my problems with this...Jean
But today, when I
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