Who is "THE" source for leopard gecko genetics?

these were the results of my het quadruple het problem using the genetics wizard. amazing how low the odds of getting an actual giant double albino PA would be... a mere 0.39%. that means about 1 in 300 would be a tremper LV giant patternless albino! beter make ALOT of quadruple hets for that one!

0.78125% Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. Giant,
1.5625% Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous Giant,
0.78125% Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. TR Albino,
1.5625% Het. TR Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
1.5625% Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant,
3.125% Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
1.5625% Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant,
1.5625% Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous TR Albino,
0.78125% Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant,
1.5625% Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant,
0.78125% Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. Giant,
3.125% Het. LV Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous Giant,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino,
3.125% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
3.125% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant,
6.25% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
3.125% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant,
3.125% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant,
3.125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant,
1.5625% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Het. LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. Giant,
1.5625% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous Giant,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino,
1.5625% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
1.5625% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant,
3.125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
1.5625% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant,
1.5625% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Het. TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant,
1.5625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Het. Giant, Homozygous Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant,
0.78125% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Het. Patternless,
0.390625% Homozygous LV Albino, Homozygous TR Albino, Homozygous Giant, Homozygous Patternless,

How else can I explain the fact that I am producing stripes from my het Bell x stripe group? They look normal! Not a single stripe or jungle in the group.

Kelli... i believe you that your line is recessive... but if marcia is crossing her line with normals and getting abberants and jungles than here line obviously isnt. unless shes getting lucky and unintentionally breeding them to hets...but if thats the case why do they come out so variable and not 50% striped and 50% het?

got any pics of full grown stripes like the babies in the pics?

Sure, here's some pics of some of my striped adults. These either were produced by Robin Struck, Chris Newsom and Texas Lizard Connection, or were produced by me from geckos acquired from above breeders. I believe they are most likely all Tremper line stripes.

Kelli... i believe you that your line is recessive... but if marcia is crossing her line with normals and getting abberants and jungles than here line obviously isnt. unless shes getting lucky and unintentionally breeding them to hets

ok i dont think thats quite accurate because and i will know more this year but i think jungles and abbarant CAN be ear marks for genetic stripe genes but can also produce banded "hets" sorta like the speckling trait that ALOT of het blizzards have but not all het blizzards have this but it is an ear mark. i am breeding several lines of stripe and jungles and from different lins to each other... by the end of this season i should have a better idea of what is going on
i do not think all stripe are genetic in nature but there are lines out there that are. two of the projects i am working on cosist of "het" stripes and these animals are completely normal banded animals... i am also breeding these "hets" to jungles and stripes and abbarants.. i have a good idea what will come but we will see

also if marcias stripes or i will say reverse stripes arent genetic then how is she able to produce reservsed stripe offspring?. i will be sending some stripers to her later this year and also to jodi aherns whom plans to track and test their genetics more closely.



to say though that all animal pocess the same traits genetically........ hypo in balls is recessice, also in corn snakes, co dominant in boas BCI and recessive in hondurans............ i do not think the k and n domionant hypos are truely dominant but probably co dominant

as far as breeding a RW PA to a tremper Giant........ i am still not conviced it is a recessive trait.. i think its more line bred than anything because i know several people whom have bred giant to giant and not produced all giants.. i think it has to do with the "mutt" geckos in which we work with and i think its simply the e.m. montanus being diplayed so breed a large animal top a large one gets your mmostly larger animals but not all..... also breeding two forms of albinism together how would you know without genetic testing which animal displayed both forms of alinism at the same time?

I talked to Tremper about incorporating Giant genes into Patternless Albino Rainwaters, and he told me it is next to impossible. He stated several reasons, and gave a couple examples of the difficultly of producing Tremper PA's and blazings. I would get into further detail but I don't know if it would be worth the pages of notes that go along with it. If anyone is really interested, give me a call, a telephone conversation would be a lot easier.

co dominant in boas BCI

is that a fact? i kinda figured that was the case, but wasnt sure. which strain of hypos? salmon or the the less abberant other strain(s) ive seen?

I talked to Tremper about incorporating Giant genes into Patternless Albino Rainwaters, and he told me it is next to impossible. He stated several reasons, and gave a couple examples of the difficultly of producing Tremper PA's and blazings. I would get into further detail but I don't know if it would be worth the pages of notes that go along with it. If anyone is really interested, give me a call, a telephone conversation would be a lot easier.

im very interested in hearing everything he had to say. i just recently purchased a pair of carrot head albino giants with the idea i could cross the, what Tremper swears is a simplevrecessive gene, giant into many otgher morphs...namely the giant blizzard and the giant PA.

as far as breeding a RW PA to a tremper Giant........ i am still not conviced it is a recessive trait.

man i hope your wrong. picturing an 11 inch blizzard weighing in at anywhere from 100 to 150 grams is part of the reason i bought a giant anything to begin with.

Here is a pic of my group 8(stripe/reverse stripe) male & one of the females, along with their first 2 clutches so far this season:



Now, here is a pic of my group 1 (stripe/jungle) male & one of the females, along with their first 2 clutches so far this season:


(I previewed this, and the photos just showed up as URL's, so I hope they post as pictures... here goes, anyway.)

Hypos in bci (samons and orange tails) are considered to be incomplete dominant. This is according to the article written in the journal of heredity by Rich Ihle which is avail on his site. I do not believe this to be true at this point in time. Incomplete dominance is what the tiger trait is in retics. There is a great difference between a hetrogeneous tiger and a homogeneous tiger. So I think that what was said about hypos being co dominant is correct. But that is not what all the experts say now.

Originally posted by diablohogs




man i hope your wrong. picturing an 11 inch blizzard weighing in at anywhere from 100 to 150 grams is part of the reason i bought a giant anything to begin with.

Shouldnt be a problem creating a double recessive using the giant, now a triple would be ALOT harder, but just a giant blizzard should not be a problem at all.

Last year i bought a pair of giant het albinos, they are not any larger than any of my other geckos, and in fact they dont eat as well.and so far i havent recieved a fertile egg from the pair... thus far i am not impressed with the giant gene

Kelli, those are some great stripes.. stripes/jungles are my favorites.. no telling what they will look like when they hatch... i have some due to hatch very soon.. i cant wait!

as mentioned it appares to be just certain lines. I'm not sure what genes control them and a possible mapping of the leopard gecko genome has been something I've wanted to do since starting college. The question is will I be able to.

Anyhow, I've been breeding stripes and jungles since 2000. I got my first animals in late 1999. I had 2 lines, Tremper and an Albuquerque breeder's line. To my knowledge and from my breeding results, stripe to stripe yields all stripes. All my striped breeders were of Tremper descent. I bred a tremper albino to a tremper jungle (Kelli now has the jungle) resulting in DHs and a few jungles het for albino. I also crossed the albino male to my stripes, but all I got from the stripes were DHs. Last year I bred a pair of the DH striped tremper albinos together. One of the resulting babies was this...



Now keep in mind, the Tremper albino male proved to have the jungle gene...I bred a tremper albino to a tremper jungle (Kelli now has the jungle) resulting in DHs and a few jungles het for albino. I feel the above hatchling helps the argument of jungle being dominant over stripe. It also further helps prove the genetics of the jungle/stripe traits being more than mere line breeding. Also, I believe Tremper mentions in the older Leo Manual that stripes originated out of the jungle line.

Now as for Marcia breeding stripes or jungles to normals and getting partials, I've had that happen to, not only in just normal to normal breedings but in other crosses as well, but never from using any of my jungles or stripes crossed to others. I think there could possibly be 2 separate traits that control both body and tail striping/abnormal markings seen in genetic stripes and jungles. It's also VERY possible that these 2 separate traits are on the same chromosome but different regions within the chromosome and since, they are both expressed in the homozygous recessive animals. This unfortunately doesn't explain the partial striping animals.

Anyhow, my brain is hurting now

Later,
Chris Newsom