(Super) Hypo Tangerine = co-dominant?

Hi,

I have a Super Hypo Tangerine (Carrottail) female. She is Ray Hine Line. Pairing her with my Wild caught normal male, I get Super Hypo- or Hypo Tangerine Babies.
So what I’m thinking about:
Is the Super Hypo Gen co-dominant?
Or do I just get 100% Hypo offspring, because the Hypo Tangerine trait is a line-breed-trait….so the “Super Hypo” mixes with the “normal”?

The Babies I get from pairing Normal x Super Hypo Tangerine have some more spots with more intensive black, than the mother. I’ve never paired the offspring back together, to see, if I would get some Babies which look similar to the mother.
But I’ve some ’03-holdbacks, pairing with a High Yellow male this season. If the gen is co-dominant, I’ve to get 50% normal looking and 50% Babies that look similar to the holdbacks, right?
And if it is not co-dominant, all the babies have to be a mix of High Yellow and Hypo Tangerine, right?

Here is a picture I took last year with the ’03 holdbacks, a ’04 Baby and the Super Hypo Tangerine (Carrottail faded with breeding) female:

that's the normal male:

Sorry for my bad English…I hope you all understand what I mean.

So what do you think? Co-dominant or not?

THX, rhac

Hello,

I believe the Ray Hine line super hypos to be co dominant. I believe the "super" form can only be proven out by breeding to a normal, if you get all super hypos then you know it's a "super".

BTW, those leos look remarkably like what people in the US are marketing as "ghosts". Just for the record though, a ghost is a Hine line super hypo without the tang.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Hello,

I believe the Ray Hine line super hypos to be co dominant. I believe the "super" from can only be proven out by breeding to a normal, if you get all super hypos then you know it's a "super".

Ok now I am confused. If it is a co-dominant then that means that the super form would be homozygus for the gene. So a Super Hypo would be homozygus and a Hypo would be hetrozygus. Therefor his SHTCT bred to a wild/normal would produce 100% Hypos not Super Hypos. From strictly a genetics side it is very curious that he was able to get Super Hypos out of this pairing.

~Jeff C.

Hypos not Super Hypos

I think the terms "super hypo" and "hypo" have different meanings for some. So I'll clear it up if I can.

All of the geckos in Rhac's first pic are super hypo (IMO). They have no spots or minimal spotting on the back.

When Ray Hine first marketed his line, he didn't call them "super hypos", he called them "hypos". But as we all know, names change and people began calling them super hypos.

Here is what I have discovered in my years of breeding the Ray Hine line super hypos:
+Breed a Super Hypo to a wild type/non super hypo and you get about 1/2 super hypos

+Breed a Super Hypo to another Super Hypo and you get all Super Hypos

+Some of the Super Hypos I have produced appear to be the "super" form of the co-dom because when these animals are bred to a wild type/non super hypo, 100% of the babies are super hypos

+Apparantly you cannot tell by looking at the gecko if it is a "super" Super Hypo or not

I can't think of anything else right now LOL. Sorry for the long post.

Originally Posted by robin s.

ok here it is... if it us truely co diminant when a hypo bred to a wild type will produce approx 50% hypomlanistic but of various degrees. now that being said once a "super" is made... its not necessarily a true super meaning if bred to a normal will not produce all hypomelanistic babies

So what you are saying is that you can have a co-dom Hypo shoing line-bred Super Hypo traits?

but remember breeding a true super to a normal will most likely not give you super hypos just varying degrees of hypomelanism (lacking in black)

Geneticly I don't think it would be possable to get a co-dom Super Hypo from a co-dom Super Hypo x Normal breeding.

in most forms of co-dominant genes (we will use hypos)
hypo x normal = 50% hypo 50normal
now take two hypos
hypo x hypo and you should get all hypos but of varying degrees and one of those could be a true super hypo i for got the percentage

Actualy a co-dom x co-dom would produce
25% wild/normal type
25% "super"/homozygus for the co-dom
50% Hypo/hetrozygus for co-dom

now a true super hypo x normal will give you varying degrees of hypomelanism
super hypo x hypo i believe should give you true supers and hypos i forgopt the percentages...
im having a brain fart

Super x Super
50% Hypo
50% Super Hypo

~Jeff C.

Actualy a co-dom x co-dom would produce
25% wild/normal type
25% "super"/homozygus for the co-dom
50% Hypo/hetrozygus for co-dom

You're correct Jeff. Perhaps the Hine line Super Hypos are not "co-dom" after all, perhaps there is something else going on, or perhaps it is just a very strong trait.

Well, you see the results of my breedings over the years, what would YOU say it is?

Originally Posted by KelliH

I think the terms "super hypo" and "hypo" have different meanings for some. So I'll clear it up if I can.

All of the geckos in Rhac's first pic are super hypo (IMO). They have no spots or minimal spotting on the back.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Kelli. I do agree that by todays standards/definitions that all of Rhac's first photo would be what are being sold as Super Hypos. From your breeding experiences that you listed though I am not so sure that the Ray Hine's Hypo line is a co-dominant line. This observation is strictly from a genetics standpoint. I say this because there does not seem to be any clear cut differences between the Homozygous form and the Heterozygous form.

Disclaimer: I have yet to work/breed any of these animals myself and am basing these comments solely on my observations of other's posts.

~Jeff C.

Kelli,

I would venture a guess that it is more of an incomplete gene then a co-dominant. However, I would want allot more info before I would say anything with certainty. It has defiantly sparked my interest. I'll probably be contacting you in the near future about getting some animals to set up a project. I would be looking for true Ray Hine's Hypo bloodlines.

~Jeff C.

If true Ray Hine's Hypos are what we are now calling Ghosts, I believe Jodi Aherns currently has some available. But before you buy them double check with Kelli or Jodi, that they are what you're looking for, as I am still a little shakey on this area of leo genetics (but trying hard to learn!)

Jeff-

It's definitely a fun trait to work with. One of my favorites for sure. Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if it is more like a dominant trait, rather than co-dom.