Tim King "Reptile Specialist" poor ethics

Ok so I wasn't going to post this but it is really aggravating me. Here is the quick run down with cut and paste email proof below.

Tim offered a group of venomous animals for sale including 3 Gilas.
I asked Tim if he would sell the Gilas alone as I am only into Gilas.
Time responded that I could have them for $700 each.
I agreed to by all 3 animals and request that he pay shipping.
Tim counters the offer and tells me to send $2150 and that would cover everything plus he will not charge me a box charge.
I send him $100 deposit(on 9/13) and he agrees to give me a little over a week to pay balance.
Tim states he already spent the money and request I send the money ASAP.
I was moving things around to cover it which would had taken me a week but since it was a great deal I agreed and put the money on a credit card therefore causing me to pay interest but I wanted to help and wanted the deal. Tim asks for me to cover 3% paypal fee and we agree to have me pay $30 of it.(Sorry but if you want to use paypal you should not request purchaser to chip in. This is my opinion but paypal is a tool for you to accept money and a benefit for the seller)
Animals paid for on 9/14 in full including shipping.
I was out of town, he was out of town couldn't make shipping sooner work so we agreed for him to ship yesterday.
I called and emailed him yesterday to see if he had an airway number from Delta as usually when you call and prebook AVI they email you the info. Did not hear from him.
Tim calls back while in the car enroute to Delta and states he is halfway there.
We go over things and I ask about insurance and offer to send him a paypal covering the $$ for the insurance.
Tim states it's "included in the shipping cost" and that I will have to pay all at once.
I remind him that I had paid our agreed additional $50 to cover my end of shipping.
Tim states he misunderstood and states he had many offers for more money on these animals and threatens that if he does not ship collect he will not ship the animals(This was actually about 10 minutes of mild arguing with me trying to explain I paid for the animals plus an additional $50 to cover half the shipping.
Tim tries to explain he took the $50 off to help(he is obviously confused).
Tim states he is now at Delta and if I don't agree to pay collect he will not ship.
I agree to have him ship collect, never agreeing to have him keep the extra $50 I paid for shipping. I figured I would let him ship and settle down and review the email exchange between us two and realize he is in the wrong and send me the $50 back.
I receive the animals and send him a nice to the point email requesting the $50 and supplying him with copies of all our email exchange where we agreed on the prices.
Tim then goes off saying basically he will not pay the "extra" $50 back.
Tim buy calling the $50 "extra it is obvious he acknowledges the fact that it was sent to cover part of shipping but still refuses to send it back. Tim continues to state that since I agreed to have him ship collect I basically forfeited my rights to the $50.00.
I continue to try and explain and Tim then goes off stating I am now harassing him. I love when someone(seller) gets called out on something and as soon as the buyer starts contacting for a resolution the seller immediate yells harassment and request you no longer contact him.

Let me clear some things up:
1. Animals arrived and I am happy with what I received.
2. I did not want to post this and ruin someones rep over $50 but how far will he go if he is willing to do this?
3. If Tim had yesterday said hey Vic I screwed up and I'm sorry but I am in a pinch and I really need the extra $50 I would most likely had said ok as the deal was awesome. But the fact that he has done this and refuses to refund money basically "stolen" from me and starts crying harassment I figured I would make others aware of this issue. It was an old trick in the book years ago to charge for shipping and then ship collect, and I was quite surprised this happened to me now.
4. Why would I just not then say hey refund me back my money? Because I wanted the animals plus why would I basically give someone a free loan that I have to pay interest on for 3 weeks? It was a risk that if he was doing this over $50 would the animals come in as promised and it was a gamble I am glad I made.
5. All over $50! If this had not taken place the way explained today I would had been placing a good guy post rather then this one as I like the animals I received. I'm not sure why he is doing this and feels he is justified in doing so and I told him I could post here and was his rep worth $50. He obviously does not care. I would like my $50 back as it is rightfully mine, hey $50 is $50 right? MAkes me wonder if when I sent the $2080 I hit a 3 instead of a 2 and he received $3080 instead of $2080 would he had kept the extra $1000? Things like this makes our hobby a pain to deal with!

Here is the email exchange between he and I:

His response to the price:

Tim King
Sep 12

to me
Ok will do separately 700.00 each

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 12, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Tim King <timjking0007@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
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> <photo.JPG>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad


Tims email requesting money sooner:

Tim
Sep 14

to me
Can u send the money sooner
I can ship Tuesday Monday out of town

Sent from my iPhone


Tim
Sep 14

to me
I just spent the money u are sending me!!!!!!
Told the guy I would pay him tommorow!!!

Sent from my iPhone


Me requesting he pay the $100 shipping fee which would had made the total $2200.00:

Vic Machese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
Sep 12

to Tim
If I take all 3 will you pay shipping?

Sent from my iPad

His response to the request to pay the $100 shipping:



Tim King
Sep 12

to me
I'll
Do 2150.00 and no box charge that will cover at least half the shipping

Sent from my iPad


Letter I sent him today after I received the animals:

Vic Machese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
12:03 PM (7 hours ago)

to Tim
Hey Tim,
The animals came through fine and are settling in. I figured I would send this after I got the animals, to prevent anything irrational from happening due to your interpretation of this email... I think it will make sense however.

I am feeling a bit misled by what we discussed regarding the shipping cost and total price of the animals. As you can see from below, this is what we agreed upon:

-3 X $700 each for the animals equals $2100.00

-You said shipping would cost $100.00. I asked if you would pay for shipping. You responded that if I sent you $2150, it should cover 1/2 of the shipping as well as NO BOX CHARGE. I did just that. If you were saving me $50 to help with me paying collect for shipping, then I would had paid you $2050.00, not $2150. I sent the $2150 and you were to then pay shipping and have the animals sent to me. That was the final agreed price. Now, I was informed that I had to paying shipping upon pickup at the airport. Why would I send you an extra $50 for 1/2 of the shipping and then still pay all of the shipping? That does not make sense. Was this intentional or an honest mistake?

All I can think is that you might you be confused on the fact that I sent you the deposit of $100 (on 9/13) and then the remaining $2050(on 9/14), which is a total of $2150. Its not only the fact of $50.00, its the fact of someones word. I was told I would pay $2150 TOTAL for the 3 animals boxed and shipped (which I had already sent). Now today I had to pay $100 more for shipping (once again- was already paid for). I am sure you are starting to see that this does not add up.

You said were are a stand up guy, so I hope after reading this you will realize the misunderstanding and will do the right thing.

I hope you understand how there was a mistake and I did indeed pay $50 more then what was agreed on and actually since I thought I was paying $2150 shipped I now maid $2250 which is now $100 over what was agreed on. I am not asking for the $100 since that is what I paid over our agreed on price just the $50 I overpaid.

To further clarify, I copied the messages (below) where we discussed this. I look forward to hearing back from you.

Vic

This is where we agreed on the price:

from you:

Ok will do separately 700.00 each

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 12, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Tim King <timjking0007@yahoo.com> wrote:


Here is our interaction about the shipping

On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:34 PM, Vic Machese <vicmachese@gmail.com> wrote:

> If I take all 3 will you pay shipping?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
From: Tim King <timjking0007@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Terrible pic but you can get the idea
To: Vic Machese <vicmachese@gmail.com>


I'll
Do 2150.00 and no box charge that will cover at least half the shipping




Sent from my iPad

Tims response:


Tim King
12:12 PM (7 hours ago)

to me
Vic
Sorry as I said many times I had three wisdom teeth pulled Thursday
And As i said I gave you the option of a full refund many many times to rectify the problem
And you said you were satisfied to make up for the the shipping fee
Problem and now you are still emailing me about it
Please send back the animals and ill
Pay ALL the shipping fees to return them and refund your money
Don't know what else to do
Tim


Sent from my iPad

My response:

Vicmachese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
12:50 PM (6 hours ago)

to Tim
It's a simple resolution send the 50 that we agreed for me to send you towards shipping and we are fine as you did not apply that 50 towards shipping. I paid you 2100 for three gilas I paid collect for the shipping and I sent another 50 for nothing. You will not be out anything that we did not agree on. You would rather spend 200 in shipping and refund me my money back and put the animals through the stress of shipping again instead of doing what is right and send me the 50 that I overpaid? I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. We agreed in 2100 for the gilas I asked if you would cover shipping you said send half (50) and it would be covered. Then I paid shipping. I am really getting frustrated on why this is so difficult. It's like what happens if I accidentally hit 3100 instead of 2100 would you not send the 1000 back. You agreed on 2100 and I agreed on that price I paid 2150 and paid shipping why is this so hard? I don't want to send them back I would like this handled like how we agreed. To be honest this is quite a headache over 50. How can you not see we agreed on 2100 and I sent 2150? That means I am 50 over. Sorry about your wisdom teeth. Honestly you saying you don't know what else to do is silly make good in the original price. Yes I told you to ship them to me last night as you were trying to back out of our deal. I would appreciate paying what we agreed. If I said I was going to give you 2100 and only sent 2050 wouldn't you want your 50?
Vic

Sent from my iPhone

Tims response:


Tim King
1:24 PM (6 hours ago)

to me
I remember asking you if you we're going to be satisfied
With the shipping cost yesterday before I shipped
More than once Vic now your saying I was trying to back out of the deal
I offered you your money back over and over again you gave me the go ahead
And said that would be fine
What happened to that conversation I did not try and back out of anything
I just tried to get it settled it and on your go ahead I did what you asked
By shipping them and you not wanting the refund now your the one backing out of the
Word you gave me yesterday about it being fine


Sent from my iPad

My Response:

Vicmachese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
1:52 PM (5 hours ago)

to Tim
I said ship them. If I continued to argue the facts you said numerous times you would turn around and refund the money. It just seems like you were just trying to milk whatever extra money out you could. You must have said several times I have other buyers for more $$. Seems like that was the issue. If I hadn't asked about shipping I would had just sent the 2100 and paid for shipping when I picked up. Instead by asking u to pay for shipping you charge me 50 more. This does not seem like a stand up guy thing to do to me at all. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. We agreed on a price I sent the full amount I asked about shipping you say send an extra 50 and we are covered then you ship collect. Not stand up at all. I wanted the gilas and I did not want you to pull out at the last minute for standing up for the extra 50 you basically stole from me by deceiving me. I don't know how you cannot see this. A good guy stands up by his word not offers something and then keeps the money and does not follow thru. It's clear as day I've sent the convos to several people to see if I had misunderstood and they all agree it just seems shady. Kinda appears intentional. I was hoping you were just confused but it is apparent that is not the case.

Sent from my iPhone

His response:


Tim King
2:27 PM (5 hours ago)

to me
Ok
I offered you a full refund yeah that's pretty shady u could of just taken the money and we would not be having this
Conversation
You agreed, i did only what you agreed on, say what you will but stop harassing me via email



Sent from my iPad


My response:


Vic Machese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
2:30 PM (5 hours ago)

to Tim
harassing? maybe I shall request a partial refund from paypal for the money I sent you for shipping that you neglected to use towards shipping and just kept. Maybe BOI? Like I said I didn't want to tarnish your name over $50 but now I am harassing you? This is not harassment it is a civil issue pertaining to a written agreement


I also sent this:


Vicmachese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
3:41 PM (3 hours ago)

to Tim
Tim I just have one thing I ask of you. Please explain to me how we got from an aggreement on 2100 and I pay shipping to 2150 and I pay shipping. That's all

Tims response:


Tim King
3:51 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
You agreed to pay the extra instead of taking the REFUND remember that ????????
Don't know how many times I have to say it you told me that yesterday and now you seem
To have forgotten that detail
You said I stole your money it's harrasment in my book your calling me a thief ?
Since I told you I would REFUND your money
Before I even shipped........your words....... stop harassing me
Now your threating me with some public forum
It's harrasment and Iam
Asking you to stop


My response:


Vicmachese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
4:03 PM (3 hours ago)

to Tim
So it is ok to charge extra and then threaten to cancel the deal unless you are allowed to keep the extra money? That's called bad buisness. No this is not harassment. As I told you before I'm pretty sure I know the law. We are entered into a written deal. You are the seller and I am the purchaser and I am having an issue and I am writing you for a resolution. This is a clear civil issue. If you would like me to explain harassment to you I will be more then glad to. If you remember I said Tim just send the animals you said you would only send collect I said that was fine. I never said I would not revisit the fact that you took an extra $50 from me. Point is you made a deal. When you tried to squeeze an extra $50 out of the deal and you were called out on that fact you threatened to reverse the deal unless you sent collect keeping the $50 you were paid for shipping for nothing. Posting on the BOI is not a threat. You clearly stated in the email you would cancel the transaction unless I allowed you to ship collect even though I paid towards shipping already. You still fail to answer the question. Explain to me how we got from an aggreement on 2100 and I pay shipping to 2150 and I pay shipping. You keep dancing around it. I never agreed to allow you to keep the extra 50 I sent for shipping. I decided to wait and contact you after I hoped you would be a little more rational the next day and see your error. I cannot believe you are this hard up for money that you would do this for 50$.
I did not want to cancel the deal I just wanted to get the deal WE agreed on.

I don't know what the fact of you getting a few teeth pulled has to do with anything.

Sent from my iPhone


Tim's reply:


Tim King
4:28 PM (3 hours ago)

to me
You
Keep saying its a written deal how about yesterday morning
While I was standing at the delta counter on the phone with you asking you if you agreed or not
And said I would refund all your money or you could pay the extra shipping
And you agreed now your calling me names like thief
And threating to smear my name on a public forum
Even though you agreed to the terms
I offered you your money back you said no, you agreed to pay the extra
Ship the animals YOUR WORDS shipped at your request at those terms
As a policeman I think
You would agree your harassing me via email
And I am politely asking once again to stop harassing me over this
Do whatever you think you need to do but stop contacting me
Or I'll take what ever action I have to to get you to leave me alone

As I have ask you to stop contacting me repeatedly

Sent from my iPad


My Reply:



Vicmachese <vicmachese@gmail.com>
5:14 PM (2 hours ago)

to Tim
As I stated this is not harassment it is an upset customer trying to rectify an issue. You keep calling the 50$ extra therefore you agree that it was not what we agreed to. Why should you be paid an extra $50 this makes no sense. It seems to me that you are saying

1. Yes I agreed on 2100 and you pay shipping, and I accepted money based on that agreement.

2. I then threatened you that I would back out on the deal we already made and, based on that threat, I extorted and extra $50 from you.

3. You agreed to it, so i don't understand why you're having such a hard time with it now. Quit bothering me.

Does that about sum it up? Crazy!

I said ship the animals I never said once that you can keep the extra $50.

Also look up harassment. This does not meet the criteria. I hate when someone rips someone off and then they are called out in it they say stop calling me this is harassment. This is not harassment. It's obvious you are wrong and think you should be paid an extra 50 because you got 3 teeth pulled. I concerned that if you are willing to do this over 50 what else would you be willing to do?


Sent from my iPhone


His reply:


Tim King
5:19 PM (2 hours ago)

to me
No it does not sum it up
You agreed to the terms yesterday
Now you don't
Said I threatened to cancel the deal
Sorry buddy but I offered your money back and
That does not a threat make
Do not contact me again
Stop harassing me. Stop harassing me stop harrassing me
I am going to file a complaint against you if you do not leave me alone
And take any measure to get you to to stop contacting me

Sent from my iPad


Now I placed a claim with paypal requesting my $50 which he has already declined to send.
Yesterday while speaking with him at Delta he said I will only ship collect and I replied "fine ship the animals Tim" again only wanting him to see the error of his ways, I never agreed to allow him to keep the extra $50 why would I do so after the arguing? I have nothing to hide and I am sorry this is such a long read. i hope it is clear.
Thanks
Vic

PS I just hope he does the right thing and since he cannot honor his original deal of 2150 shipped I hope he just send me the $50 I sent for shipping back as today I had to pay the full $96.10 for the shipping. Tim do the right thing don't let this bring you down, I enjoyed talking to you and I am sad it had to come to this! There is no reason for this. I will also email him the link of this post so he knows about it!

The response from him on paypal::

10/5/2013 16:29 PDT - Seller: You agreed to the terms of the sale before I shipped And now after calling me a thief And threating to slander me in a publici on line forum and accepting the the banded gilas from me you changed your mind on our agreement after taking possession
10/5/2013 16:29 PDT - PayPal: Tim king denied EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS's request for a $50.00 USD refund.
10/5/2013 15:43 PDT - Buyer: A Price of 2100 was agreed on for the purchase. Seller requested I cover part of the 3% paypal fee($30).Seller agreed to ship purchase for an additional $50.00.$100 Deposit sent 9/13, $2080 sent 9/14.Seller shipped purchase collect making me pay an additional $100.00. Only request refund of $50 which I paid towards shipping which was not used for such. I have emails with all agreed on.

Yeah
And the one little miner detail you left out Vic
Was your agreement to the terms as I stood at the delta counter
Offering you a full REFUND prior to shipping which you conveniently
Omitted from the post which is so easily done
And I could not defend myself from people like you
Who do not tell the truth

Tim it is above:

"Tim states he is now at Delta and if I don't agree to pay collect he will not ship.
I agree to have him ship collect, never agreeing to have him keep the extra $50 I paid for shipping. I figured I would let him ship and settle down and review the email exchange between us two and realize he is in the wrong and send me the $50 back."

I said "fine Tim ship them collect"
I NEVER SAID Keep the "EXTRA $50" I thought you were just overly confused and just needed time to see this.
You admit the $50 was to be towards shipping and here right now you admit that even after we came to an agreement on price including shipping, moments before you shipped you tried to raise the price up and for you to keep the additional $50 for no reason. It's not me lying my friend now is it. You admit to it so why would you do this? Why if you made a mistake/confused am I supposed to compensate you with an additional $50. Come on now you have to see where you are wrong.
You were confused, you realized at Delta I paid $50 towards shipping then say the only way you will ship is collect and expect me to forget about the $50. Tim this is silly isn't it?
I hope one of your friends helps you see through this. It's not worth a good name over $50. You made a mistake you apologized yesterday, but yet you still kept the money I paid towards shipping. Just do the right thing and move forward!

Oh and Yes, TIM OFFERED A FULL REFUND at the time he was at delta, but like i said why would I give someone a free 3 week loan and then I have to pay the interest added to the card for this "Loan". I wanted the animals, I did not want you to back out of the deal. You made me feel like you were hoping I would say yes so you would have the opportunity to sell them at a higher price which was most likely offered to you as they are nice animals. You got your money in time to make your purchase you sold the other animals and then you didn't need my money immediately anymore. I am not a bank who gives out free loans. You agreed to the deal my friend!

You
Are in denial, I said you could have a complete refund, you told me no that was fine
And I admit to no wrong doing other than taking you for your word
You can continue this all you want Iam out on trying to argue with some one
Being dishonest
Like I said in your threating emails I will no longer replay to you post
Have a nice day

Originally Posted by EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS

The response from him on paypal:
Seller requested I cover part of the 3% paypal fee($30)

He actually asked you to cover part of his Paypal fees? That's against their TOS.
Just from reading his refund offer, it does seem as if he may have gotten a better offer, but personally I feel it would be unethical to break the agreement he had with you even if he had other offers as you had sent a deposit.

If he closed the deal at $2150 shipped, that's the way it should have gone down.

Originally Posted by EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS

I was moving things around to cover it which would had taken me a week but since it was a great deal I agreed and put the money on a credit card therefore causing me to pay interest but I wanted to help and wanted the deal.

Call your credit card company in the morning. See if you can send them a copy of this thread. I'd send Paypal a copy too.

Originally Posted by timjking

I will no longer replay to you post

Tim I just thought about this I have 2 questions for you:

1. Do you think it is ok to make a deal and moments prior to completion when knowing someone really wants your product raise the price?

2. If you did not reach me on the phone prior to shipping at Delta and you shipped collect and the error was pointed out after the fact without us speaking where would we be right now? Would you had refunded the $$?

Tim you did offer to break the deal. Did you offer to cover my interest fees?

Lucille I already have a claim with paypal maybe I will notify them of the TOS violation as it is right here:


Tim King
Sep 13

to me
Here's
My pay pal address don't forget to add 3%
Timjking0007@yahoo.com

Sent from my iPad

This all reminds me of signing up for cable or a cell phone service. Your initial quote is nothing close to the final price after fees, gov taxes, state taxes, install fees, set up fees, additional features etc.

To lead someone on while tacking on more money after they've already paid seems very unfair. Especially when you threaten to just cancel the sale at a loss to the buyer so that you can sell to "somebody else" who has offered more. Sounds like you were using that leverage to get your way/more money and that all these extra costs needed to be included upfront... Not while on your way to Delta...while holding the buyers money and animals hostage while asking for more.

So far it makes the seller look devious and trying to squeeze every dollar he can out of a buyer...