I never claimed to be an expert. I did do my homework on the proper care of these frogs and did so. The pictures were taken shortly after the frog was put into the enclosure which is why the water is so prevalent. When I put the water into the bowl it spilled onto the floor of the cage which is why the paper towels were wet and that was taken care of as soon as he was off the bottom of the tank. The shelf is damp because I misted it before I picked up the bowl to put the frog up higher under the light where it was warm and then left it alone. That was the only animal in the tank. I don't have a scanner but would pictures work? I will take pictures of the necropsy report and post those if it is satisfactory.
I did not ask Ed about the proper care after I recieved the frog I asked months prior. I did ask about dusting the crickets because I didn't know the last time he had dusted them or what size the frog was eating at that time. I asked what his methods were to be able to do the same and follow the same regemin that the frog had been on. I wanted to use tongs becasue she had no interest in eating.I got my care information from pollywog care sheets and many other places, mainly other members of the fatfrog forum who have these frogs.
I agree that he honored his live arrival guarantee and said as much. I also stated that he sold me an infected animal which he did.
Since Ed posted copies of additional pm's I will post his respones in their entirety beginning in June.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:32 am
Subject: ship
Kelly, I need to wait till it cools down some. hope you understand.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:26 am
Subject: Re: Hi.
Will send you 1 of my CB Australian blue phase whites then.
just ran out of cold packs but have some on the way and will get back to you when they get here
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:33 am
Subject: Aussie whites
They are the easiest frog in the world tp keep, paper towels and branches with a place to hide. eat loads of crickets. small exo or zoo med is perfect and you can add a UVB light.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:31 am
Subject: Re: Aussie whites
They dont need UVB, coco works well and a lite will heat that small cage if you want.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:42 am
Subject: Re: Aussie whites
you can use a medium hagen heat pad or a 50 watt lite bulb to heat it.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: Aussie whites
Planning on shipping to you on monday, if you wont be home tuesday to recieve the whites let me know what day you will be there.
Yea I have had it with the constant argueing and other BS on this forum.
All times are GMT
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From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:56 am
Subject: Re: Aussie whites
Delivery to you on thursday is best. sat delivery is too risky, if it does not make it to you on sat it sits in a fedex warehouse all day sunday.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: Aussie whites
Large dusted crickets.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:33 pm
Subject: Re: Aussie whites
Its better to wait, let me know when you are gonna be in the 80's
you are getting my keeper blue phase and I would hate to hear it died.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:51 am
Subject: Re: Wednesday the 13th
Ban ship tue or wed, tell me what day. weather is perfect.
adult crickets, hes about 2 1/2 inches....big baby or juvi
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:52 am
Subject: Re: Wednesday the 13th
No reason to treat that frog.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:46 pm
Subject: Re: Are we good to go?
will be there before 10:30 am, they never knock so be sitting near your front door.
I sent it to the address I sent to last time.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: Re: Are we good to go?
Thanks, and it is a he. wait till you hear him calling!
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS!
k412 wrote:
So, I totally LOVE him!
1. Can they fall? I walked out of my room for a while and when I came back he was on the fake rockpile thing, I'm scared he's gonna hurt himself.
2. When do I need to dust his crickets again, may I give him nightcrawler pieces? When he went to the bottom of the tank I thought maybe he was looking for food so I cut a piece of one and put it in, he turned the other way. He is so chunky already I just love it!
3. How were you feeding him? Should I just put some crickets in the bottom? I used to pull the hopper legs off of them for my other frogs when they were babies, or should I let them keep their legs so they can hop up to wherever he is?
4. How many should I feed him? Say, put 5 in at night for like 30 minutes and wait and watch?
Sorry to hit you with a bunch, this is all I can think of for now...
Let me know what you think about his new house too okay? Thank you Ed!
Just dust some large crickets and put them in with him late in the day.
like 8-10 large crickets at a time. I never feed them worms but you can try. he likes wax worms also.
They are tought, they jump from the top of tank onto the bottom chasing food.
Hes a CB Australian blue phase whites.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS!
He should eat right away, I would at least try.
that foam is not toxic after it gets hard.
they like hollow logs to sleep in.
k412 wrote:
Thank you very much!
I got a big piece of wood to put in the middle so he will have something to climb on. I have seen him walking around a little but mostly he's hiding.
Should I feed him tonight or wait a day?
I also got this flexi wood fake wood thing that won't absorb any excretions, thought it would be a good idea but when I stuck it in the background thing it isn't very sturdy. I bent it so it rests on the big piece of wood in the middle so I think it's alright. Do I have to worry about any of the foam stuff getting on him if it comes loose?
All times are GMT
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:34 am
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS!
Dont worry, he will come around. shipping is rought on them.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:50 am
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS!
I'm serious about this.
No more pics, leave him alone for a couple days to settle in!
Tought love baby.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:04 am
Subject: Re: FUCKING CRICKETS!!!!!!!!!!
No he will not eat off tongs, put crickets in cage and the frog will eat them.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:07 am
Subject: Re: I'm sorry Ed. I'm a shitty keeper.
It was probably not your fault....something happened? what who knows.
Dont get down on yourself, I happens to us all.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:53 am
Subject: Re: Just wondering
Kelly, I guarantee live arrival only, no its not possible for that frog to have anything at all.
I also paid for the fedex priority shipping to you which cost me alot.
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:41 am
Subject: Re: Just wondering
The shipping was on me with pleasure.
Really wish that frog was still with you.
I do not keep my sent items just the responses. I should but I'm sure that Ed has them. He assures me that the frog was a male but it was a female.
He stated that it was not possible for the frog to have had anything wrong but septic is obviously not good. He never claimed that I was to blame until I posted the results and the issue here. Now he has posted this;
http://fatfrogs.7.forumer.com/viewto...?p=92599#92599
What I am stating is that the frog that he sold me was very ill. They hide their illnesses until stressed this is something that most people know and I am and was aware of which is why I had the necropsy done. I did not want it on my conscience that this frog died because of something that I did. I provided a sterile enviornment although perhaps too large in the beginning but as sick as this frog was she would have died no matter the size of the enclosure. Spilling some water on the bottom of the tank would not have caused this frog to die and neither would the size of it. What killed this frog is the fact that it had a bacterial infection that turned septic. The reason that I stated the necropsy report was the bottom line is because I stating that he sold me a sick frog.
I will post this thread again because it has the most detailed information.
http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?...=4&topic=16933
This frog did not get an infection and turn septic in 24 hours.
Look at the report again as well.
Kidney- The kidney is moderatly autolyzed. There are numerous small thin bacteria which are proliferating throughout the renal sections. Moderate numbers of them are confined to the capillary loops of the glomeruli although aggregates are also present within the interstitium
Spleen- moderately to severely autolyzed. It is also congested. The previously described bacteria can be identified with macrophages of the spleen. These are small punctate to short rod-shaped structures recognized within the cytoplasm.
Pancreas- severely autolyzed
Intestines- severely autolyzed
Possible Stomach- severely autolyzed
Lung- There are bacteria recognized within the capillaries of the faveoli.
Liver- mild multifocal areas of acute necrosis with fibrin deposition and the previously described bacteria. Granulocytic leukocytes are also identified although these are rare in number. The Liver is moderatly autolyzed.
Heart- The epicardium of the heart is supporting large numbers of the previously described bacteria.
Coelomic cavity fat pads- The previously described bacteria can be identified within some of the vascular spaces of the fat pads.
Skin- There are sections of the skin where there is extensive loss of the epithelium and large numbers of bacteria are proliferating throughout the areas with the epithelium as well as into the superficial dermis. There is also the subdermal lymph vessels and sacs containing the previously described bacteria and some cellular debris. Multifocally the epithelium is supporting an increased cellularity in areas where there is cell necrosis and fibrin as well as the bacteria. This cellularity is of granulocytic leukocytes.
Stomach- mildly to moderately autolyzed. The above described bacteria can be identified within vessels of the submucosa and mucosa.
Diagnosis-
Multiple organs- bactermia
Liver- Multifocal moderate acute hepatitis
Skin- Multifocal acute erosive and ulcerative dermatitis
Comment- The cause of death in this frog is due to bacterial septicemia. This is most likely the cause of the clinical signs. It is difficult to determine where the portal of entry might be for the bacteria, I suspect it is through lesions in the skin. There are areas of the skin with ulcerations and erosions and large numbers of bacteria present as well as large numbers of the bacteria being present within lymphatics in the dermis. No other specific disease agent is recognized.
If I had fed her something that infected her stomach, intestines, liver, spleen, pancreas, kidney and heart than I would absolutely be to blame. If I did not do any research on the proper care for these frogs the members of talktothfrog.org would have told me as much and so would the members of fatfrogs when I asked them. I am not an irresponsible pet owner nor am I reckless with an animals life. The animal's life is more important than making money from it.
This frog never ate in the 24 hours that I had her. What would cause necrosis and hepatitis in her liver if she never ate for me? She had a preexisting condition. She was sick before I got her. There was nothing toxic noted so it was not from the enviornment that she was in.
If she did not ingest or absorb anything while in my possession what other possibility is there besides her being ill prior to her arrival? Too much humidity? I indicated the same percentage on the link above.
My sole statement is that I was sold a sick frog by Ed Clark.
Again, if I take a legible photo of the necropsy report and that is acceptable I will gladly do so. If anyone here has a scanner and wants a copy to see and post for themselves I will happily mail one tomorrow.