Ed Clark,don't buy frogs from him!

By hiding illness I mean that they aren't as obvious as in mammals.
Animals that are a prey species fair better to disguise illness that predatory animals.
Thank you for that post it was very informative.
I have a cranwell and an ornate. They are the only other frogs that I have owned and they are doing well.

Ed, I just wanted to ask why you took your Ads off of Kingsnake. The first one that you posted was on the 15th of August of this year and the second, if memory serves, was on the 22nd. The Ad on the 15th had the frogs size as 2 1/2 svl and the second had them at 1 1/2.

I'm very curious to see the results of the chytrid test considering he claims to treat all of his frogs. I'm chiming in on this forum becuase I got tired of reading that this was k412's fault.

To the person who keeps mentioning that the humidity is too high in her set up can quit. It's already been said that humidity will not kill an aussie white overnight.

To the person that said she was an inexperienced keeper should quit assuming just because she was asking questions that it was her fault. Care sheets are almost always wrong. For example: almost all of them say using sphagnum moss for just about every frog is ok.
I ask a million questions because I want to make sure I'm doing it right regardless of what the care sheets say.

To the people that said leasons are not clearly visible made their own point. They're not CLEARLY visible because you only saw the top side of the frog.

To the person who said that chytrid fungus does not kill right away apparently doesn't own a whites because that is clearly a Juvenile frog. This frog could have been harboring the fungus since it was a tadpole.

And last of all to ED! You sir are a Jerk plain and simple. Anytime someone tries to call you out on not breeding, sending sick animals, sending the wrong animal you ignore it, and ignore it, and ignore it some more. You leave people no choice but to call you out publicly. And then you blame it on them. I know of quite a few cases where you sent the wrong animal and still blamed it on the buyer. K4 beat me to the punch on the last aussie white he had thing. You posted several pics of aussie whites in that thread ED, so who's the liar? It's amazing to me how many people play the devils advocate here. The point is this. If you had taken care of this VIA PM on fatfrogs ED like k4 tried to do this thread would have never been started.

Originally Posted by K412

By hiding illness I mean that they aren't as obvious as in mammals.
Animals that are a prey species fair better to disguise illness that predatory animals.

It's sometimes easier to see behaviors related to illness in mammals because there's more common behavior there to sympathize with.

When it comes to the physical manifestation of symptoms though, the physiology and immune responses of amphibians are such that any illness which will display outward signs will do so in an obvious manner. Given the basic premise that there is anything which will be displayed upon visual inspection, amphibians will display it; sick amphibians are generally extremely easy to spot, not difficult.

Further, since all frogs and toads are strictly predatory as adults, your rationalization for that argument simply isn't accurate. With the rare exception of certain apex predators, the majority of carnivores (piscavores, insectivores, etceteravores) are both predator AND prey species in their natural environment.

I do not know who told you that amphibians will "hide" an illness but it's an inaccurate generalization that you should not spread any further.

Originally Posted by crazyfroglady

that is clearly a Juvenile frog

Two-two and a half inches stvl with a belly full of eggs is not a juvenile frog. For a whites, it's a young adult.

Even if the length were not given as undisputed fact in the thread and the claim was not made about the eggs, the clear visual of the well defined timpanic roll is an indication that the higher caloric demands of a juvenile animal have ended.

I'm sorry atleast a juvenile. I never claimed to be an expert. How come you're not picking through ed's post correcting every inaccuarate statement he makes?

QUOTE=jayefbe] Could the ulcerations and bacteria have occurred post-mortem? I mean, the frog was shipped to CA, so it's possible that improper shipping conditions led to an unreliable diagnosis..[/quote]

I would like a frog expert to comment on this. The frog died. Then the frog was taken to a local vet. Then the frog remains were shipped to California. Is there a possibility that with all this transport, the frog's remains were not kept sufficiently chilled and bacteria invaded and multiplied?

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From: k412
To: ed clark
Posted: 2 Aug 14, 2008 8:59 pm
Subject: FUCKING CRICKETS!!!!!!!!!!
So last night I put 3 in and 45 miinutes later got all 3 out. Tonight I put in 2 and am waiting patiently. How can I make sure he eats them? He is afraid of the tongs.
He sure isn't a pacman frog.

I have to find a way to keep those damn things oputside, jesus they stink!!!

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Originally Posted by lucille

QUOTE=jayefbe] Could the ulcerations and bacteria have occurred post-mortem? I mean, the frog was shipped to CA, so it's possible that improper shipping conditions led to an unreliable diagnosis..

I would like a frog expert to comment on this. The frog died. Then the frog was taken to a local vet. Then the frog remains were shipped to California. Is there a possibility that with all this transport, the frog's remains were not kept sufficiently chilled and bacteria invaded and multiplied?[/quote]

We do need a frog expert.

My problems with absolving Ed from blame lies in the fact that he's a known liar (sorry Ed). He doesn't have the best reputation (I would NEVER buy anything from him), and he has again and again shown his character when confronted with a dissatisfied customer.

While it's difficult at this stage to say that he is totally to blame, it's also difficult given all the factors that I have read

1. Death in a relatively short time
2. It is a female and not a male as he stated
3. The OP doesn't come across as being sly, her stories jib.
4. They have pointed out inconsistancies in Ed's stories.

to consider him totally blameless (never known a leopard to change its spots yet). While I agree that he can't be held responsible for any bills incurred on the animal, it would be wise not to prejudge the OP too early.

Originally Posted by lanceheads

Usually, the ulcerations will be on the ventral side of an amphibian.

Randal

Not always though. If they are kept improperly, ( an inexperienced keeper) they can form on the top, and on the legs.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

Not always though. If they are kept improperly, ( an inexperienced keeper) they can form on the top, and on the legs.

Regardless of the placement of the ulcerations, I am still having a problem with the timing of the death. You can be the worse keeper in the world, but unless you actually drop, throw or physically kill the animal, it should not die in such a short time. If it got sick in her care, there would still have to be a period of time for the animal to go from good, to bad to worse..JMHO.

UNLESS, it was already ill..and while Ed may not have known that it was ill......???

Honestly, I do not have enough experience with Frogs and I am not going to pretend and just post for the sake of having something to say..I just want to remind us that it takes time for an animal to die even if one is the worse keeper in the world.

Also, if it was physically killed there would have been some kind of notation in the paperwork (ie, broken legs...(something)). I guess, I am just not ready to write off the OP as a crazy frog killer.