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Veterinarian Practice & General Health Issues Anything to do with veterinarians, health issues, pathogens, hygiene, or sanitation. |
07-30-2012, 09:26 AM
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#1
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ANY Idea what this is? (a little graphic)
I recently purchased a hatchling bull snake female, and she seems to have some sort of problem. A few days after her arrival, (I try not to disturb them immediately upon arrival, so I can't say whether this was the case when she arrived) she regurgitated. Upon removing her from her tub to clean it, I noticed what has to be one of the weirdest reactions I've ever seen.
The reaction progresses over the course of 30 seconds or so. It starts with a normal tail rattle, then quickly shivers up her body and then she goes into this form (see picture), which she will hold without moving, until she calms back down and goes back to normal (see other picture). After she calms down, I can still see some very slight curvature where these dips occur, but I can't tell if they are permanent or due to some sort of swelling or injury from the episode.
Does anyone have any idea what this is? I've never seen anything like it. Is it congenital or environmental? Will this impact my future plans for breeding her? I also have her brother, who is being kept in identical conditions with no issues. To complicate things further, the breeder I got her from says that she was a twin, and that her twin does not exhibit any of these issues at all. I am really eager to hear anyone's opinions or experience on this issue, as I am quite concerned. Thank you for your time.
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07-30-2012, 09:32 AM
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#2
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I should add that the reaction is definitely caused by stress, as when she is warmer or agitated she is much more likely to do it, whereas if she is cooler and left alone she will not.
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07-30-2012, 05:33 PM
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#3
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I've never seen anything that comes and goes like that before, I'd be interested in hearing what a vet could find. Personally I doubt that it's caused by the environment, although I can see how it could exacerbate the problem.
Also I'm sorry, but I would NEVER breed her.
I don't know if it's genetic or not, but why risk it? Especially since the issues seem to be in her lower body, I'd expect her to have a higher risk of eggbinding or other complications.
Right now I'd focus on whether the poor girl can even keep a meal down. Fingers crossed that she recovers well for you!
I know that must be disappointing, I hope you're getting a refund or replacement from the breeder...
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07-30-2012, 06:42 PM
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#4
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I'm weighing in as a lizard person, so pardon me if I say something really stupid. I would assume she's kept food down in the past, or she wouldn't have made it to that size. That would cause me to lean toward illness or injury rather than congenital defect. Regurgitation and muscle spasms in general are signs of IBD, for which there is no cure. In geckos, you see curved bones and contortions in severe cases of MBD, also incurable at that advanced stage. You definitely should take her to the vet to avoid losing your other snakes. Just my thoughts, I'm sure more snake folks will weigh in. This is extremely interesting. Sorry for your poor girl!
Noelle
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07-30-2012, 07:23 PM
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#5
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I hope more snake people weigh in too as I'm still fairly new to things, but just thought I'd toss out my thoughts on what Christine said since I'm not sure and would like to hear more opinions on the matter~
I think MBD is more of a lizard/turtle etc sort of thing since most snakes don't really need UVB lighting and get the correct amounts of calcium/Vitamin D from the whole prey items they eat.
Also I want to say that IBD is more of a python/boa thing since I've never heard of any confirmed cases with colubrids, but there's still a lot about it we don't know.
Lastly I've heard bulls hatch out pretty large straight from the egg, so I don't know how much size she's gotten... I am curious as to how long the breeder had her and whether she showed any problems before with them.
Some sort of injury is definitely possible, especially if she was perfect before, an xray might help...
Wishing you the best of luck with her!
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07-30-2012, 08:05 PM
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#6
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I didn't comment earlier, when I first saw this thread, as I have no idea what happened with the poor dear. I will offer my thoughts now though, it seems to be a type of seizure or extreme muscle spasm.
Autumn is right about the MBD, it is generally a lizard issue. However, I believe snakes do get MBD when they are not fed prey items (with bones) ... ie chicken, beef.
I would keep her well clear of any other snake and take her to the vet.
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07-30-2012, 08:26 PM
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#7
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I would NOT breed that animal just because of this. Sorry.
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07-30-2012, 10:33 PM
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#8
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She has been eating prey items (pinky mice) I do not see how any injury could have been sustained, as she was simply in a tub for the time and there is nothing in there she could have hurt herself over. The breeder says she has been eating fine and did not notice this issue at all, but as I said, it only comes up when she is sufficiently stressed, so I do not believe it to be the kind of thing that one would have noticed in the course of normal keeping. I am currently talking to the breeder about a possible refund/replacement, though I'm not sure the breeder is going to accept responsibility.
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07-30-2012, 10:36 PM
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#9
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It could very well be neurological, what is the morph? do others WITH this particular morph notice these issues as well? Something to consider...
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07-30-2012, 10:38 PM
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#10
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morph is an axanthic patternless. If anyone else out there knows something by all means let us know, but as far as I, the breeder, or anyone else I have talked to know, nobody has ever seen anything like this.
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