Robert Vann aka Bob Vann Thief & Scam Artist!

Hello everyone my name is Francisco Escalante. I'm a small time breeder/keeper/inthusiast. I'v been buying, and selling snakes for a wile now, and have come to meet some really nice people in the business. Now I right to you in desperation, and I'm not sure what I'm trying to accomplish, but I need some advice, or maybe for someone to hear my story.

I'v been going through some ruff times, and decided to sell one of my Albino Ball Pythons, she was 100% healthy, and eating F/T rats. Witch to me the frozen thawed switch was an accomplishment. I placed an ad up on king snake, and a man named Bob Vann (aka Robert Vann on his paypal account) contacted me about the snake, he asked if she was still available. I emailed him back and said yes, and sent him a money request via pay pal. He paid and I shipped it out to him via UPS next day air early AM, and crossed my fingers. Once I got the money I sent him this email.

"Hi Rob, I took her to the UPS shipping place, she'll sit there in A/C till 4:00 pm Eastern. She should be at your place by 10:30 am. I hope she brings you joy, and if you need anything else, just let me know.

Thank you,
Francisco

1ZW69R210140791556"

I stayed up the whole night tracking the package, waiting for the next update on UPS's website. Finally at 9:24 AM it was delivered and I breathed a sign of relief. At 4:44 PM I got this email from him,

"Francisco
It is now 1:30 in ca. I have called UPS they say that they dropped the package on my front steps. at 9:30. I stayed home from work as long as I could I left for work at 10:50 or so and the package was not their. I can't believe that they would just drop it off and not want me to sign for it. I have always had to sign before when I get a delivery. they told me to get in touch with you so that you could start tracking it.
I have purchased 16 snakes so far this year and this is the 1st time this has happened. I hope that we can find the package.
Thank you Bob Vann (916 599-9408)"

I called UPS and they said they put it on his front door. So I called him next and let him know I was going to do everything to try to fix this. The whole time he didn't really sound upset, and he did not show any concern for the snakes well being, he was overly obsessed with the fact that I didn't send the box with signature required, he was jokingly laughing while talking (as in he'd say something then laugh) wile I was trying to get a grip on the situation, and quietly having a panic attack. All the while assuring him I would try and make it right. UPS called me and said they spoke to the driver, and the driver said he left it on a chair on his front door.

I have purchased snakes via UPS/FEDEX/DHL and I never missed a box, as in I knew there was a live animal in a box, that I paid money for, so I would sit and wait till I saw the carrier and flag him down. I was never non shalant or thought it to be not a big deal, even if I only paid $50 for a kingsnake.

I called him back and told him UPS was conducting an investigation, and I would get the results in a few days. Again his attitude/tone didn't match someone who just lost $900.00 and he didn't sound at all concerned for the animals life.

I woke up this morning and I checked my paypal account and I felt like a semi truck hit me! He filed a claim stating he did not receive the package, and paypal took the money from me. I called them and they said, since I didn't require a signature, I was not eligible for the buyer protection, and the tracking number was not proof of delivery. When the lady mention all this was happening due to not requiring a signature for delivery, I thought about how overly obsessed he was with the fact that I didn't send the box with signature required, and his tone, and attitude.

I suspect fraudulent activities on the buyers behalf. I feel like I just been robbed! I lossed my snake, and $900.00

Robert Vann aka Bob Vann
6625 rancho pico way
sacramento, CA 95828
bobthegodfather@yahoo.com
(916 599-9408)

I sold a tangible item using a Verified Premier account, I provided timely shipment to a buyer's Confirmed Address, and I retained reasonable proof of delivery that can be tracked online. I am willing to come to a resolution with the buyer. I have contacted UPS and they are conducting an investigation, and I am waiting for them to get back to me with the results.

If UPS is at fault and delivered the package to another address, or lossed the package, I will be willing to replace a similar item to the buyer at no additional charge.

If UPS did not lose the package, or did not ship to the wrong address, and the investigation finds that the package was delivered to the buyers home. If the buyer believes the package to be stolen, I would ask for a full police report, and will ship out a similar item, and ask that the buyer pays for shipping.

I apologize for any and all inconveniences, and hope we can come to a resolution.

Francisco Escalante

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++

Robert Vann aka Bob Vann did not want to submit a police report!!! Paypal refunded the money to him. UPS swears they left the box on his front porch.

The police report is a reasonable thing to do and perhaps you should initiate one yourself, being the truly responsible party.

Fed Ex Next Day Air Priority and Delta Dash are the only industry accepted manner of delivery. Fed Ex actually ships animals and certifies shippers to be qualified to ship animals, UPS has a NO LIVE ANIMALS policy.

I'm betting that a police report will be your only option, and they will go there (maybe) and he'll say, "Nope, never got the box" and there will be no way to prove otherwise.

No signature required? Sounds like an expensive lesson to me.

Originally Posted by TheHerpinator

Fed Ex Next Day Air Priority and Delta Dash are the only industry accepted manner of delivery. Fed Ex actually ships animals and certifies shippers to be qualified to ship animals, UPS has a NO LIVE ANIMALS policy.

I've shipped "Live Harmless Reptiles" labeled as such through UPS. They have no such policy. Shipping snakes, however is a violation of their TOS. This may be a tricky one, but I agree that a police report should be the next step.

I can't speak for UPS, as I do not use them, but I know that even when you ship something "signature required" (yes, you have to choose this option and pay a couple bucks more for it). there are times when they will just dump the package and say that they have a signature release on file for the receiver...even though I've gone round and round with them that I have NOT signed anything such. Apparently, you have to specifically say that you do NOT want it, and even then they don't always abide by it. So, what I'm saying here is, signature required or not, it doesn't always make a difference, though I always choose to send it that way.

Anyway....I'm sorry to hear about this, Francisco. While I tend to feel suspicious about the whole thing too, it IS possible that UPS left the package on the wrong porch, and they aren't going to admit it either. Of course the fact that the buyer seemed to have no concern for the welfare of the animal would upset me as well as make me wonder....

I agree, filing a police report yourself is probably the next best option you have. Best of luck, and keep us posted if you find out any more....

Did you keep good pics of her?

And yes, shipping snakes via UPS is against their TOS, but they do NOT have a blanket "no live animals" policy, therefore Fedex and Delta are not the only "industry accepted" manner of delivery. I have received lizards and amphibians through UPS and been perfectly fine with it. Per the UPS website:

Accepted / Prohibited Live Animals

Accepted Live Animals

This is a comprehensive list of live animals accepted for transportation. Shippers are prohibited from shipping any animal not listed here, and all other live animals will not be accepted for transportation. The following live animals are accepted for transportation unless poisonous, venomous, and/or a Threatened or Endangered Species.


Amphibians (All): Examples: frogs, salamanders, toads
Crustaceans (All): Examples: crabs, crawfish, lobsters, shrimp
Fish (All)
Insects (Limited to beneficial insects only): Examples: bees, butterflies, crickets, lady bugs
Mollusks (All): Examples: clams, mussels, snails
Reptiles (Limited to the following):
- Lizards: Examples: chameleons, geckos, iguanas, monitors, flying dragons
- Turtles: freshwater turtles (except: snapping turtles), land tortoises, sea turtles
Worms (All)

Prohibited Live Animals

Live Animals that are prohibited from being shipped and are not accepted for transportation include, but are not limited to:


Any poisonous, venomous or threatening animal
Any Threatened or Endangered species
Arachnids (All): Examples: mites, scorpions, spiders, ticks
Birds (All)
Crocodiles (All): Examples: alligators, caimans, gavials
Mammals (All)
Obnoxious Insects: Examples: flies, locusts, mosquitoes, roaches, termites, weevils
Snakes (All): venomous and non-venomous

*The first paragraph of my post refers to when I ship with Fedex....I left that out somehow, lol.

Francisco,

Tough call on this one. Regrettably I think Erik is right and it might be a very expensive lesson for you. Filing a police report seems to be the logical thing to do. A year ago we paid $2,000 for an adult albino ball when I was told by the seller that UPS was the only way he could ship. We decided to cancel the transaction (the seller was not a happy camper) as there was no way he could assure us that he would deliver the animal properly. In the future you may want to sign-up for a FedEx account and be a verified shipper.

Regards

Originally Posted by The BoidSmith

Francisco,

In the future you may want to sign-up for a FedEx account and be a verified shipper.

It should be noted that even if you are certified to ship with FedEx, they will not reimburse you for the loss of a reptile.

Francisco, do you have any specific information on Robert Vann so that those that wish to can avoid him in the future.

Originally Posted by kmurphy

Francisco, do you have any specific information on Robert Vann so that those that wish to can avoid him in the future.

______________________

Robert Vann aka Bob Vann
6625 rancho pico way
sacramento, CA 95828
bobthegodfather@yahoo.com
(916 599-9408)

Francisco, if you haven't already sent him an email to this thread, you should.