Notices |
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please note that the information requested during registration will be used to determine your legitimacy as a participant of this site. As such, any information you provide that is determined to be false, inaccurate, misleading, or highly suspicious will result in your registration being rejected. This is designed to try to discourage as much as possible those spammers and scammers that tend to plague sites of this nature, to the detriment of all the legitimate members trying to enjoy the features this site provides for them.
Of particular importance is the REQUIREMENT that you provide your REAL full name upon registering. Sorry, but this is not like other sites where anonymity is more the rule.
Also your TRUE location is important. If the location you enter in your profile field does not match the location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected. As such, I strongly urge registrants to avoid using a VPN service to register, as they are often used by spammers and scammers, and as such will be blocked when discovered when auditing new registrations.
Sorry about all these hoops to jump through, but I am quite serious about blocking spammers and scammers at the gate on this site and am doing the very best that I can to that effect. Trust me, I would rather be doing more interesting things with my time, and wouldn't be making this effort if I didn't think it was worthwhile.
|
Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
11-27-2016, 08:34 AM
|
#151
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMB Reptiles
Someone who feels he has acted in good faith yet has failed to substantiate any of his claims, has yet to have these "several other people who had snakes die" come here to verify that statement (but has continued to make anonymous third party claims throughout this entire thread), and when people ask him to provide proof he gets defensive and calls them names. You're right dan, he has "good guy" written all over him
|
There has been ONE person come forward, I know that is not multiple but it is not NONE either.
I have no axe in this fight, which is what it has boiled down to.
I hope the op does come back and provide some light on lab results which should help matters no end.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 08:41 AM
|
#152
|
|
You're correct, one person came that was not even related to the OP. The pictures posted by her (Logan) do not appear to be even remotely similar to those posted by the OP in my opinion. Her snake actually looks very healthy.
I'm wondering where the multiple people are that the OP referred to. He's had plenty of time to tell them about this thread, and as mad as he gets that people question him you'd think he'd love nothing more than to get these other owners here to run it in the face of all of us nay-Sayers.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 08:57 AM
|
#153
|
|
I'm not sure how well these pictures will show up but these are examples of SFD as exemplified on one of the links the OP provided as proof that it has wiped out 100% of IL populations (which it didn't state at all, but that's beside the point).
I'm not a vet, but none of the pictures I've seen from the OP or Logan look even remotely close to this.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 10:13 AM
|
#154
|
|
Actually, that top photo does look very much like Joe's photo. At least to my eyes.
Thanks for posting.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 01:03 PM
|
#155
|
|
I'm not sure Underground could really sue as Joe said he speculated it could be SFD, not that it was, and he had the opinion of someone who has seen SFD in the wilds plus a vet backing this up that it could be SFD and testing is in order. However, I think it's reasonable that Underground would not comment without consulting an attorney given the seriousness of the claim to harm their business. From my limited reading, the fungus can grow on things besides snakes so anything brought in the infected areas, plants, logs, etc, could also contain spores. I live in an infected area and have found wild snakes hibernating in my basement and this is a relatively new home well sealed. The fact is this disease is going to be a threat from now on and it's already too late to stop it.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 01:25 PM
|
#156
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesareawesome
I'm not sure Underground could really sue as Joe said he speculated it could be SFD, not that it was, and he had the opinion of someone who has seen SFD in the wilds plus a vet backing this up that it could be SFD and testing is in order. However, I think it's reasonable that Underground would not comment without consulting an attorney given the seriousness of the claim to harm their business. From my limited reading, the fungus can grow on things besides snakes so anything brought in the infected areas, plants, logs, etc, could also contain spores. I live in an infected area and have found wild snakes hibernating in my basement and this is a relatively new home well sealed. The fact is this disease is going to be a threat from now on and it's already too late to stop it.
|
If the fungus thought potentially causative here can live well enough on environmental materials, it may be difficult to show that Underground is the source by way of this distant testing. I am not saying it is or is not this fungus and I am not saying it did or did not come from the alleged source if it is found/identified in the samples taken, but there is an element of plausible deniability here if the suspected pathogen can be introduced to the received animals via contaminated caging materials.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=585531
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 02:01 PM
|
#157
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou View Post
If the fungus thought potentially causative here can live well enough on environmental materials, it may be difficult to show that Underground is the source by way of this distant testing. I am not saying it is or is not this fungus and I am not saying it did or did not come from the alleged source if it is found/identified in the samples taken, but there is an element of plausible deniability here if the suspected pathogen can be introduced to the received animals via contaminated caging materials.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=585531
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesareawesome View Post
I'm not sure Underground could really sue as Joe said he speculated it could be SFD, not that it was, and he had the opinion of someone who has seen SFD in the wilds plus a vet backing this up that it could be SFD and testing is in order. However, I think it's reasonable that Underground would not comment without consulting an attorney given the seriousness of the claim to harm their business. From my limited reading, the fungus can grow on things besides snakes so anything brought in the infected areas, plants, logs, etc, could also contain spores. I live in an infected area and have found wild snakes hibernating in my basement and this is a relatively new home well sealed. The fact is this disease is going to be a threat from now on and it's already too late to stop it.
SFD and any speculations aside, Joe directly accused Underground of selling sick snakes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamnophis123 View Post
I did business with Underground and got pretty much what I expected - sick snakes.
After having said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamnophis123 View Post
Of the 9 that I received (invoice says 7, I know) all but one appeared initially healthy. Only one was a bit thin. But all ate well and were alert, active snakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamnophis123 View Post
I bought a group of water snakes from Underground Reptiles this summer. It was a small order for them but they spent time with me, answered all my questions, shipped exactly what I ordered, and followed up with a phone call to check on the snakes.
They move a lot of inventory, much of it wild caught, so you have to understand who / what your dealing with. But with that in mind, I think they did a very good job with this order of mine.
Joe Monahan
If one is speculating and does not know exactly what is going on or where the symptoms came from, making a direct accusation to Underground of selling sick snakes was not a good idea and cannot be unsaid.
I agree with all those that have said that we need to read, research, and be very careful with husbandry. But we do not need to be making careless accusations.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 02:09 PM
|
#158
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou View Post
If the fungus thought potentially causative here can live well enough on environmental materials, it may be difficult to show that Underground is the source by way of this distant testing. I am not saying it is or is not this fungus and I am not saying it did or did not come from the alleged source if it is found/identified in the samples taken, but there is an element of plausible deniability here if the suspected pathogen can be introduced to the received animals via contaminated caging materials.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=585531
|
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesareawesome View Post
I'm not sure Underground could really sue as Joe said he speculated it could be SFD, not that it was, and he had the opinion of someone who has seen SFD in the wilds plus a vet backing this up that it could be SFD and testing is in order. However, I think it's reasonable that Underground would not comment without consulting an attorney given the seriousness of the claim to harm their business. From my limited reading, the fungus can grow on things besides snakes so anything brought in the infected areas, plants, logs, etc, could also contain spores. I live in an infected area and have found wild snakes hibernating in my basement and this is a relatively new home well sealed. The fact is this disease is going to be a threat from now on and it's already too late to stop it.
|
SFD and any speculations aside, Joe directly accused Underground of selling sick snakes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamnophis123 View Post
I did business with Underground and got pretty much what I expected - sick snakes.
|
After having said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamnophis123 View Post
Of the 9 that I received (invoice says 7, I know) all but one appeared initially healthy. Only one was a bit thin. But all ate well and were alert, active snakes.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamnophis123 View Post
I bought a group of water snakes from Underground Reptiles this summer. It was a small order for them but they spent time with me, answered all my questions, shipped exactly what I ordered, and followed up with a phone call to check on the snakes.
They move a lot of inventory, much of it wild caught, so you have to understand who / what your dealing with. But with that in mind, I think they did a very good job with this order of mine.
Joe Monahan
|
If one is speculating and does not know exactly what is going on or where the symptoms came from, making a direct accusation to Underground of selling sick snakes was not a good idea and cannot be unsaid.
I agree with all those that have said that we need to read, research, and be very careful with husbandry. But we do not need to be making careless accusations.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 02:50 PM
|
#159
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMB Reptiles
You're correct, one person came that was not even related to the OP. The pictures posted by her (Logan) do not appear to be even remotely similar to those posted by the OP in my opinion. Her snake actually looks very healthy.
|
I agree, my snake does look much better than the OP's snakes. However, she is displaying odd physical symptoms that, at their worst, are identical to some of the symptoms on the OP's animals. The white bumps are odd - from the moment they appeared, I knew they were odd. After researching any and all skin/scale issues I could find reference to, I just didn't have a good comparison, so I took a "wait and see" approach. That changed after I saw the OP's images. Are they as bad as the ones on his animals? No - they are not. I admit that readily. Is my snake displaying the other symptoms? No - not at this point. But the bumps are the same, and that's enough to make me take the issue seriously no matter the cause.
I'm not saying that I think this is SFD. I don't know what this is, and I'm hoping after my vet visit tomorrow and after the results come in I'll know a bit more. It just struck me as coincidental that he and I both purchased baby water snakes from the same seller at the same time that are showing very similar symptoms that I haven't seen anywhere else (I'm speaking to my snake's issue specifically here).
Until the results come in from both the OP's tests and the tests I'm having done tomorrow, I'm reserving judgement.
|
|
|
11-27-2016, 02:56 PM
|
#160
|
|
I think your approach to this simultaneously shows your concern and exercises fairness, Logan.
|
|
|
Join
now to reply to this thread or open new ones
for your questions & comments! FaunaClassifieds.com
is the largest online community about Reptile
& Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one
classifieds service with thousands of ads to look
for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE.
Click Here to Register!
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:36 PM.
|
|