Bad experience with Vinny Buccigrossi

I purchased a carpet python cross for $400 that was advertised by Vinny on Kingsnake. I received the snake on April 23, 2009. Like always, I quarantined the snake in another room, in a cage that was pre-treated with Provent-a-Mite. About a week later, I noticed many dead mites in the cage and water bowl. I sent Vinny an e-mail, just to let him know he should check and treat his remaining animals. To his credit, Vinny responded immediately, and sent me $50 to purchase more Provent-a-Mite, for which I thanked him. (I had asked him to cover the purchase of one can, plus shipping, which was $25).

After letting the snake get settled in his new environment, I offered a f/t prey item about a week later. He ate, but not with normal carpet enthusiasm. About 5 days later, he passed a small amount of liquid stool. I wasn't overly concerned, and offered a second meal about 10 days after the first. He ate, but again, not the way my other carpets eat. About 5 days later, he again passed liquid stool, but no urates. I called my vet, and he said to wait a few more days, and offer a meal again. I did as instructed, and the snake refused. I also saw that his lower abdomen was starting to swell. I called the vet, and was advised to bring him in, which I did on May 30th.

The vet did a fecal exam, and gave the snake Flagyl orally for a protozoa infection. He also gave a mineral oil enema, and fluids orally and subcutaneously. An x-ray was also taken to determine the extent of impaction. Charges for that visit were $211. I e-mailed Vinny to let him know what happened, and he basically said there is nothing he can do.

I took the snake home, and soaked him in warm water for 3 hours per day, as instructed by the vet. There was no improvement after several days, and I took him back to the vet on June 6th. The vet tried to move the mass manually, but it wouldn't budge, and the snake appeared to be in pain. The vet said he could remove the impaction surgically, but gave only a fair-to-poor prognosis, and a price estimate of $450. We both decided that the best decision would be to humanely euthanize the snake. Charges for that visit were $116. I sent Vinny an e-mail on June 7th, with copies of my receipts, photos of the x-rays, and a post-mortem photo. I did not receive a response. I sent another e-mail 4 days later, which he did respond to.

I was offered another carpet python that he said was similar to the one I originally purchased. I looked at the photos, and the animal was not like the one I purchased. I asked for lineage information, and Vinny said he didn't know. It appeared to be a coastal/IJ cross, with a value of $150-$200. I told Vinny that it was not acceptable to offer me that snake in place of the one I paid $400 for. I sent another email asking if he had any others to offer. He never responded.

I am now out $677 for this transaction. I asked Vinny several times for a refund on the snake. I told him I would absorb the cost of the vet bills, but said it would be fair if he would refund the purchase price for the snake. He refused. My vet offered to have Vinny call him, and he would explain that the level of impaction was too severe to have happened with only 2 feedings from me.

A very expensive lesson for me. Be very careful if buying from this person.

Kathy Robbins

Very sorry to hear about this Kathy, hopefully he mans up and pays you back for at least the cost of the snake. I will be very careful if I see him selling anythiing in the future, thanks.

Chris

Kathy,

You left out a couple of parts to the story.

First, you emailed me and told me how great the snake was two days after you got him. Then you emailed me and told me he has some mites and you had to purchase mite spray to treat him. You didn't tell me he was already in a cage with Rid Mite and hence didn't need to be treated again. Nonetheless, I sent you a refund of $50 for the Rid Mite you bought (two cans for one snake that had already been treated).
Second and most important, you had the snake for over a month and then came back telling me you wanted your money back, because I should have known the snake had an impaction before it left my house. You had the snake for weeks and obviously didn't think there was a problem (as you stated), yet you think I should have seen it a month prior.
Any seller has no idea what happens to an animal once it leaves him. Had you come back to me in a few days, you'd have had a refund in minutes. After 5 weeks, I'm sorry. I can't help.
As a gesture of good will, I offered to give you the other carpet you mentioned. It wasn't enough, so there's really nothing else I can, or am willing to do.
In my opinion, I've done everything possible to make this a good transaction for both of us. Should anyone here think badly of me because of this incident, I think I can live with it.

Vinny,

Do you make it a habit of sending out animals with mites?

And both parties, could we please see the e-mails mentioned?

Vinny,

I e-mailed you from work telling you that the snake arrived, and looked great. He was still in the shipping bag, so he looked great as far as I could see without taking him out in my office. I didn't want you to wonder what happened with the shipment if I waited until I got home that night to contact you.

It took awhile for the intestinal issues to become apparent. The snake's health deteriorated rapidly within a couple of weeks with me. You saw the impaction x-rays - this animal was not well long before I received him.

Kathy

David,

No, as a matter of fact I don't make it a habit to send along the gift of mites with an animal. That's why I was so mortified that I sent Kathy a refund of $50 to cover the RidMite she bought.
Have you ever had mites show up on an animal? I'll bet you have at least once. Does that mean your collection is dirty or you don't keep up with husbandry issues?
As long as we're talking mites, if you had gotten an animal that turned out to have mites would you tell the seller that you needed a refund to purchase RidMite to treat said snake, even though you had already treated the animal?

Kathy,

I'm just going by my admittedly shaky memory, but perhaps you have our old emails to back this up. As I recall, you emailed me two days after I shipped the snake to you thanking me for it and apologizing for not contacting me sooner. You even included a little quip about beating out the other folks who were interested in buying him. Does that ring a bell at all?
Even if my recollection is wrong, over the course of the next week, I didn't get any emails saying you thought or saw a problem.
If you didn't see it, why do you think I should have seen it in the days or weeks prior? I sold you the snake in total good faith. The snake was outwardly and visibly very healthy when he left me. You obviously thought the same thing, or I am absolutely certain that you'd have contacted me.
Again, you're asking me to refund you the money for a snake that looked great, was in your care for five weeks, and fed for you twice. If you can find other people who think you should get a refund under those circumstances, I guess you should save their addresses. You'll want to make all of your future purchases from them.

But, if a vet can say" yeah i was impacted before you got it" For certain... regardless if you knew it or not, that kind of IS your responsibility.

This stuff happens sometimes. If the animal was not healthy in your care, whether you thought it was or not, without actual PROOF on your end that it ABSOLUTELY without a doubt was, and SHE has a vet saying otherwise.... I really would consider this something that you should probably handle.

if i were you i WOULD speak to the vet directly and get your information that way, about the animal. Seriously, what could it hurt?

"without actual PROOF on your end that it ABSOLUTELY without a doubt was, and SHE has a vet saying otherwise.... I really would consider this something that you should probably handle."

So, I need to somehow prove the snake was healthy when I shipped it, yet a vet's UNproven opinion is good enough to warrant a refund? What happened innocent until proven guilty?

I cared for, fed, cleaned and watered the snake for months before I sold it, and there was never a problem. A vet checks him out five weeks after that, and by looking at an X-ray opines that I somehow did the wrong thing and caused an impaction way back when.
Apologies to any vets I offend, but his professional opinion is not only wrong, he's out of line in offering it under these circumstances. I'm sure he knows his opinion is just that, an opinion, not fact. And that's no way to determine liability.
In my non-professional opinion, there's no way to tell when this health issue started with absolute certainty. And since I can't PROVE he was healthy when he left me any more than Kathy can PROVE I sold her a sick snake, I don't think I should be on the hook for this.
To that end, I offered Kathy another carpet which she immediately declined due to it's lower value. Okay. In my mind, this case is closed now regardless of how long this gets bounced around here.

I have to come down slightly on the side of Vinny on this one. If she couldn't tell it was impacted when she received it, and also approximately 3 weeks and 2 meals later be her own admission, then how does she expect Vinny to have known it. As far as proving it was impacted when sent that's pretty much impossible in my opinion. Unless it was something like un-passed egg.
Was the snake opened up to find out what the impaction was? I don't agree that the snake was in pain as I don't think they feel pain that way. Others may know better on this. In my opinion the snake was put down too soon for an impaction.