is usark scamming the reptile industry

Originally Posted by Myatesomaha

Ok I'll bite but I will keep it short and sweet. I saw the title of the thread and was curious what you had to say. Though I believe that USARK is fighting the good fight and pray that I'm right you do bring up some good points. Some of that wording is concerning I don't think its bad idea to know a little bit more about the people that are representing our industry. I think it would be a great idea for USARK jump on this thread and explain their rationale.

i think how vague the wording is can really be damaging in a court of law. and if the exposure of said listed animals is crime then is it a chargeable offense to even let someone hold your snake and is the police hearing of it probable cause to raid your house. and what about venomoids and hatchlings. there is nothing in the model legislation that deals with venomoids or the size of the animals listed. its just says listed species

Here is my opinion. I do support USARK because we need a lobbying group to support our cause. You mention the hotel costs. Do you know that Andrew lives in NC and whenever he goes to get support from people or goes to support our industry that is going to require a hotel room? Andrew is not going out on vacation on the money he receives from donations. All lobbyist groups use money for hotels and money for things that requires traveling to get support for their cause.

As for the NC laws, I am not going to say I was happy with all the rules in place; however, NC was getting ready to BAN snake ownership, including boa constrictors. We had a huge fight here for a really long time and almost lost. It was either, we lose or we compromise. I hate compromising on this issue. I really do. However, I would rather compromise than lose everything.

I personally, keep all my snakes in very secured enclosures and a secured room. Even if I make a mistake, because I am human, I will not lose any snake. I have never lost a snake so with that being said, I don't worry about ever having to tell law enforcement officials I lost a snake.

Rodney, it seems as though you really care about being able to have reptiles. It seems that you don't like the fact that USARK has made compromises. The thing is, we are not going to always agree with all the compromises, just as we don't always agree with all the laws the governments put in place.

With the amount of bad publicity surrounding exotic animals, if we don't start compromising and making people feel safe (even if it is an illusion of safety), we are completely outnumbered and we are going to lose this hobby.

1 bad thing happens and the media will bring it up for years. We need to show those who fear exotics and the government that we are going to do what it takes to keep people safe. Unfortunately, that does not come without consequence on our part.

Star

let me make something clear. i dont like usark for a lot of reasons but i do think usark or a usark like organization is needed. i personally dont feel they are being open enough with what they are doing, nor do i feel andrew wyatt is the right person to be the figure head or front man of the organization. i know ive said a lot of negative things about usark and ive done so because of how quick they are to throw the venomous big snake and croc people under the bus. if they want to claim to represent the industry as a whole then thats what they need to do.

The first time I met Andrew, it was before he was in USARK. He had the most beautiful lavender albino retic climbing around his head. The last I have heard, he still owns that snake. I can't imagine him lobbying to get rid of large constricting snakes when he owns them.

Star

Originally Posted by weird_science04

Here is my opinion. I do support USARK because we need a lobbying group to support our cause. You mention the hotel costs. Do you know that Andrew lives in NC and whenever he goes to get support from people or goes to support our industry that is going to require a hotel room? Andrew is not going out on vacation on the money he receives from donations. All lobbyist groups use money for hotels and money for things that requires traveling to get support for their cause.

As for the NC laws, I am not going to say I was happy with all the rules in place; however, NC was getting ready to BAN snake ownership, including boa constrictors. We had a huge fight here for a really long time and almost lost. It was either, we lose or we compromise. I hate compromising on this issue. I really do. However, I would rather compromise than lose everything.

I personally, keep all my snakes in very secured enclosures and a secured room. Even if I make a mistake, because I am human, I will not lose any snake. I have never lost a snake so with that being said, I don't worry about ever having to tell law enforcement officials I lost a snake.

Rodney, it seems as though you really care about being able to have reptiles. It seems that you don't like the fact that USARK has made compromises. The thing is, we are not going to always agree with all the compromises, just as we don't always agree with all the laws the governments put in place.

With the amount of bad publicity surrounding exotic animals, if we don't start compromising and making people feel safe (even if it is an illusion of safety), we are completely outnumbered and we are going to lose this hobby.

1 bad thing happens and the media will bring it up for years. We need to show those who fear exotics and the government that we are going to do what it takes to keep people safe. Unfortunately, that does not come without consequence on our part.

Star

im glad you posted. im not for compromise but thats beside the point.

my question to you is. what are the NC shows like now that you have model legislation. is there venomous big snakes and crocs and NC show?

are you allowed to have them at show?

and what was some of the impacts of model legislation the venomous big snake and croc part of the reptile indusrty in NC

and what was the impact of the exposure laws and unsafe contact with the listed animals and how were these laws implicated and enforced?

Originally Posted by weird_science04

The first time I met Andrew, it was before he was in USARK. He had the most beautiful lavender albino retic climbing around his head. The last I have heard, he still owns that snake. I can't imagine him lobbying to get rid of large constricting snakes when he owns them.

Star

so the guy that wrote the book on exposure laws, unsafe contact and responsible handling practices likes to let retics crawl around on his head.

thats priceless

Rodney, by reading all of your posts on this subject, it is apparent that you have no grasp on what is going on around you. I have been a part of USARK since the first meeting of it's predecessor, NCARK. I spoke to Andrew about reptile legislation before NCARK was ever started. I have donated a considerable amount of money to USARK and plan on continuing.

This organization is using common sense and realistic viewpoints to protect our rights as reptile keepers. Wake up and smell the coffee, you keep dangerous animals. They have and will kill people. Combine that with the fact that they are highly stigmatized in the general population. When you think about those things, you better thank your lucky stars if USARK is able to make legislation in your state that you only have to have locking cages for them.

On to your belief that one piece of legislation immediately means that they will continue to pass harsher laws. That is horse crap. What you need to be concerned about is when a state has no laws on the subject. If FL had that locked cage law when those idiots got their kid killed (supposedly), they would have been looked at as criminals and it would have been seen as more their fault than the snake's.

And honestly, your reason for putting this post up is because you think USARK is a special interest group? Of course they are a special interest group. Everyone who tries to get anything done legislatively in one specific area is a special interest group. I hope they are spending a ton on lobbying, it's how you get things done in Washington, unfortunately.

Also, who do you think is on the board of most organizations, it's normally composed of? You get on the advisory board of an organization by being a large donor.

I don't know what bone you have to pick with Andrew, but I have to assume that is what is driving these attacks, because if you really are attacking them based on what you're describing, you're an extremely naive person to the way the world works.

I hope your tic-keeping lawyer does well by you, but I think you have a thing or two to learn about politics and legislation.

Chris Canada-Smith

I have never seen any venomous snakes at reptile shows here in NC even before the regulation. The Reptile Show in Raleigh has went downhill but not from regulation.

I personally haven't been affected by the new laws nor have my 20 something snakes been affected.

It has been a while since I went to a show and looked around here in NC. I don't go to too many shows because I don't want to spend money and I don't trust all the breeders there. It is harder to use my cellphone to check up on breeders at reptile shows. However, Andrew has brought retics to the shows in NC.

Star

If Andrew is against large constrictors, why is he doing this?

http://united-states-association-of-...milies-alread/

Star

I am very interested in this topic seeing lobbyists are usually in it for more than they say IE: money.
I do believe you are wrong about the whole firs ammendmant crap and you brought it all down on yourself with that comment. Now with that being said if USARK is indeed playing both sides of the court and feeding off our fears then I do have an issue and would stop supporting them immediatly, but until I see evidence that 100% shows them sticking it to us then I will continue to support them. Just my 2 cents.