Scales N Tails BAD NEWS!

The vet said that despite it being a bad RI it would be easy to overlook. She perscribed Baytril.

Zachary Lujan.

Sorry I forgot dosage, she perscribe 1CC of Baytril for 7 days. 3 days injected 4 days oral.

The vet said that despite it being a bad RI it would be easy to overlook.

Easy for you to overlook, or easy for Scales N Tails to overlook? I guess it doesn't really matter - as your vet already stated it would be easy...

So... You bought a snake that had an easy to overlook respiratory infection. You called Scales N Tails, and they agreed (as in, you proposed) to pay for half of the vet bill. The alternative would have been to take the snake back, and exchange it for another one. Problem solved in my book.

I've seen animals in Scales 'N Tails that are decent, but occasionally seen some that aren't in good shape. They (S&T) are basically reptile brokers... buying from breeders and reselling them. They don't quarrantine animals they get in. I've a friend who sold em some snakes, and they were immediately put in a display case for purchase. I would wager that the employees just give the critters a once-over when they get them in, and unless the animals look sick, they are immediately up for sale. Ergo, it's up to the buyer to give the snake a good inspection, but even inspections can miss things. If you weren't happy with their return policy, you shouldn't have bought from them.

Frankly, I'm more comfortable buying my reptiles from a breeder, and unless they have something I really can't live without, I don't shop there much. (It's the only place I've found that carries live pinks on a regular basis, so when I have stubborn hatchlings I get my pinks there...)

Of the animals I've bought from them, I've had mixed results. One was a beardie, who did well... another was a pewter who seemed to show an RI or something after I got him home (he seemed to get over it after a month or two)... the third was a female stripe corn who seems in every way a healthy snake.

Basically, treat the store as if you're buying reptiles from a show. Ya don't know who bred them, ya don't know their history or their health, and you're not likely to be able to get a refund if they start showing illness (unless it's within a very short period of purchase).

-Kat Hall

Having lived in Littleton, I've been to the Englewood location many times...

As has been stated before, I believe most the problems come from the difficulties inherent with WC animals and a frequently undereducated staff.

I know a few people locally who produce animals and sell them to the shops... these animals are in top quality condition.

I know that many of the animals are low grade WCs that really should spend some time with a middleman to weed out those which may not make it before being chucked into a display.

I wouldn't trust the majority of employees any further than I could throw them ("?With your bad knee, you shouldn't be throwing anyone.") when it comes to both animal knowledge and the level of honesty likely to be displayed if you ask any questions about the animal's origins or history in the store.

While it can be said "Buyer Beware" I tend to feel that this is a dishonest strategy in dealing with the largely uneducated retail market. The crowd which is generated is far less an experienced herpetology crowd and far more a "Croc hunter is cool, lets get a snake" crowd. If someone experienced and educated can occasionally be taken in by a seemingly okay purchase only to have it come back and bite them, how many of these first and second time reptile owners are being suckered similarly?

The real problem though... it's a very SUCCESSFUL retail model. It generates massive amounts of profit for the money invested in overhead and employee salaries. Nothing they are doing is illegal and if a customer is very very careful about it, they can make a great purchase that they'll be really happy with when looking at what they got for their money.

At the Englewood location though, I do have to second the above comments... the place is filthy, there are dead animals all over the place and the employees are liars, ignorant of animal care and frequently scared of the animals.

When it's all said and done, ANY time you buy from ANYONE, it is definitely a caveat emptor situation! You cannot know for certain where an animal originates or to what it has been exposed unless you bred the animal yourself. The only thing that alleviates those types of concerns is the degree to which your trust in the seller outweighs the issues at hand.

So, if a breeder/dealer/pet store has a reputation for being trustworthy, buy away. If not, stay away! It's just that simple. However, giving Scales N Tales the benifit of the doubt for a moment, if Zach says the following:

"I purchased the snake because I DID inspect it, and there was no visible signs"

Why would the store be any more responsible for seeing the signs than is the buyer? I mean, if the RI had not progressed to exhibiting the outward manifestations of the infection (remember, the vet said it was "easy to overlook"), why is the store held to the higher standard in an exchange of equal values? They are willing to pay half of the vet bills in question, which is a lot more than bad guys are usually willing to do. I can't see where they did anything wrong in the deal itself.

Now, whether the animal was placed out on the floor for sale too quickly or not ... that may be a different issue all together, but that was not the complaint raised by Zach here in this thread.

I have to agree with Darrin on this one.

1. You purchased an outwardly healthy animal that you obviously found satisfactory at the time after close physical inspection.

2. After a relatively short period of time (1 or 2 days?) you noticed symptoms of a respiratory infection beginning to manifest.

3. You then contacted the store and they agreed to split the vet bills with you without having any knowledge of your set up at home or husbandry practices. I am going to make the assumption based on several of these posts that you could also have returned the animal. Feel free to correct me on that one if I am wrong.

Sounds like much better treatment than you would have received at 9 out of 10 pet shops. Given the details of the situation, you could have just as easily posted a good guy thread due to their willingness to make it right.

I see no "bad guy" here

Seamus, you made some good points. The best being about the south store, that place is sickening.

Kat, your are wrong about them being "reptile brokers". less than 20% of thier animals come from breeders. Most of them come from importers(i.e. Bushmaster Reptiles, Xtreme, Cal Zoo).

As for Nick and Ashley, Nick is about the least knowledgable person i have ever met when it comes to reptiles(second only to ashley). I once watched nick probe a snake i was interested in, BACKWARDS. Before i had a chance to stop him, he probed it UP the tail. Needless to say blood started to seep out of the cloeca. On several occasions i have overheard ashley talking to customers and just LYING. Just to get the sale. I recommend you stay away from the West store(20th &Wads). You are better of doing your buisness with Rich, or right here, on this wonderful thing called the internet.
Respectfully,
Jesse Smith

If the snake had an RI, they probably didn't know about it. As i said they know nothing about reptiles, ESPECIALLY SNAKES.

We used to live near Denver, and the store up in the far north of the city was the closest to us.

We bought 3 young bearded dragons from them in the late 90's (can't remember which year).

One became very sick, and despite intensive care by our vet (Dr. Klingenberg - author of "Understanding Reptile Parasites") and ourselves, she died, but not before we spent our vacation money trying to save her.

Necropsy revealed that she died of microsporidiosis. This very rare parasite has only rarely been described in dragons - about 5 cases in the US ever at that time. Having no other animals at that time, and using only new equipment, the dragons had arrived with the microsporidia and not received it from the environment we offered. Dr. Klingenberg stated to us in his case conclusion report that the parasite was in the dragon when we received her.

Further research revealed that this parasite is much more common in snakes, and the conclusion was that the dragons had been put in a cage previously occupied by an infected carrier snake, without the cage being adequately cleaned/sterilized first.

We did not go back to the store about the problem, and I am not seeking to comment on their customer service here. We never bought animals from them again. We did stop in occasionally and over the next 3 years we noticed the quality of the store deteriorate significantly. Our last visit there a couple of years ago, all the cages were filthy, there were at least 20 - 30 young iguanas in a 10 gallon tank. A gecko cage had a long dead gecko lying in full view at the front. It was horrible. We never went there again

Although this is all now old information, I wanted to add it to the Scales and Tails thread as we still feel very sad about the whole incident. I hope the store has improved but we have now moved away and I will never know.

It was an eye-opening experience as I thought that buying cage-bred animals from a speciality reptile store would be a safe way to go, especially with something as common as a bearded dragon. As a note to end - the two that did survive - after very intensive care - are not Pogona vitticeps as they were sold, but appear to be a mix of vitticeps and rankins, and not pure bred.

Skye