Allen Both - Reptile Kingdom

Hi everyone. First of all, let me just say, I'm a new member here, so if I do anything that's out of line, I encourage you to let me know. I have read the rules and stickys, though, rest assured!

Alright. Well, I wasn't sure if I should put this as a "Bad Guy" post or "Inquiry".. So I went with the first. My reason being was a negative experience with this vendor at reptile shows. I want to put this out there because ever since this experience I just haven't felt right about it..

So here's my story..

I went to the All-Maryland Reptile Show in November of last year with a very specific purpose. To bring home a fire skink! After searching far and wide, I came across a table absolutely LOADED with a vast array of reptiles. It was obvious to me that these guys were in it for the profit from the start. Tiny 6x6 boxes were brimming with lizards and snakes of all kinds. It wasn't long until I found what I was looking for.. A small cup with two fire skinks huddled together, no label, no price. I examined them and they were not skinny nor sickly in appearance.. So I excitedly hailed one of the vendors, asked the price, paid the $20, and whisked the deli-cup away.

Now, let me just say that when I take on a new reptile I do thorough research and ensure ahead of time I have a suitable set-up and that all requirements are met!

When we got home, I took him out of his deli-cup for the first time. He was calm, but wriggled a bit in protest to my handling him, a response I suspected, so I decided it would be best to let him adjust to his new home. I placed him in his enclosure and let him be until later that night. I went to check on him, he had burrowed himself down into the bed-a-beast. I took him out for a quick look before I went to bed.. He seemed very calm and complacent when I handled him. While concerning, I had hoped he was just stressed from his first day, and so I returned him to his enclosure and went to bed. I guess I shouldn't have been so optimistic.

The next morning I found him dead, stiff as a board. I know for a fact that even if there was any type of heating malfunction that my house did not go below 70 degrees that night! So, I cried, moped around feeling like it was my fault, feeling so guilty for his death, cried some more.. Then finally got up the courage to seek out the vendor that I had bought him from.

This is when I got to talk to Allen or one of the other lovely members of Reptile Kingdom.

I called and got right to the point. I explained politely to the man on the phone my situation, that I had given him optimal care, and that I would appreciate a refund. The man was unwilling to discuss the situation and tried to point the finger at me repeatedly, though I told him several times with the amount of time he was in my care, he could've survived in a freezer! He scoffed, he huffed, and was VERY unbusiness-like. Finally, he told me to come to his table at the next show and maybe they could do something for me. I gave him my name and number, which I can PROMISE YOU he did not write down. He was very quick to hang up. I proceeded to send a few e-mails in the following weeks, none have been responded to.

Has anyone had a similar experience with Reptile Kingdom?

Just a couple things.

You were at a reptile show, and yes, the vast majority of vendors are in it for the profit. Also, the skink could not have survived overnight in a freezer, so please, refrain from needless hyperbole. It sounds like the guy from Reptile Kingdom didn't appreciate it either.

Please post your enclosure and care methods.

The guy from Reptile Kingdom was unyielding from the start. I didn't use those exact words, I was far more polite.. I just wanted to emphasize how hard it would be to kill that little fella in such a short time-frame.

My care was as follows:
I had a 10 gallon tank filled about 1-2 inches will bed-a-beast. Moist but not soaked or soggy. Temps peaked at about 85-90 degrees on the warm end. A basking spot was provided plus supplemental heat from heat tape at night. I had a basking bulb and a uva/uvb strip bulb. 2 hides were available, one cool, one warm. There was a shallow water dish and a bowl with mealworms readily available.

I'm a little confused - did you get one skink, or two? You said there were two skinks in the cup.
How do you measure your peak heat temps?
Did the seller offer any guarantees when you bought them?

Personally I always buy captive bred, and stick to breeders who specialize in one or a few species on the table.

I bought one skink. Sorry for not clarifying! I measured my temps with a digital thermometer (the kind with a probe). And Reptile Kingdom offers a 48 hour guarantee on their website. Though I'm not even really concerned with a refund, just the poor customer service.

And yes - I've learned from my mistake and tend to stay away from wholesalers and wild-caughts.

Sorry for your loss, I have had wild caught and Captive Bred Fire Skinks, I would say that for a Ten Gallon, only a undertank heater would be needed - the other lights etc,, could be overkill.. as the 10 gallon is small and there is not a lot of room for a proper warm spot/cool spot.
I have seen this seller at the local PA/MD shows- he has a mix of cb/wild caughts.. your best bet is to go with captive bred- I purchased mine from Amazon Reptile Center. I would also suggest a bigger Tank at least 20 gallon long. Don't give up, Fire Skinks make excellant captives- they calm down with age and are beautiful.
In regards to getting a refund- hopefully you kept the skink in the freeezer or took some pics for proof- This way you can approach Allan at the next MD or Hamburg PA show.

Thank you, Bill. I don't think I'll be looking to get another fire skink any time soon.

The skink was young and the 10 gallon was temporary. I must say that I did have a nice gradient in the tank from the 85-90 degree basking spot to about 75 degrees on the opposite end.

The UTH was for nighttime only, and I liked the light not only as a heat source but it was visually pleasing as well.

Lena, just wanted to say sorry about your loss. I do agree with Bill, if you like the fire skinks, dont give up on them. They do make excellent captives. For all future purchases, try and buy captive even it cost you a little more money.

As for Alllen, at Reptile Kingdom, he has been around for a very long time in this business. He does carry a wide variety of captive and wildcaught species. Years ago, when I had the need to do so, I dealt with Allen on a regular basis, he always did his best to give me the best quality animals, but when dealing with wildcaught animals there is always a chance that some may not make it. He was always more then willing to take care of me whenever a problem came up.

Now, I talk to Allen on a regular basis at shows, but have not had the need to purchase from him in quite some time now. I hope that since then, Allen has not changed any of his business practices (for the worse) and would continue to treat his customers in the same professional manner that he did in the past.

Maybe, just maybe, the day that you called he was having a bad day, I dont know and its no excuse but I would still approach him at the next available show and give him the oppurtunity to make it right.

Lena, very sorry for your loss.

WC Fire skinks normally thrive, but not all of them.

Thats the risk you take when buying wild caught.

I had two instances of purchasing from Reptile Kingdom myself...

First time (2005 maybe?) was purchasing a 4-5' female boa...Later found out it was male. Second time (2007 maybe?) I purchased for my husband a pair of hatchling Day Geckos...They never ate and died about a month after we got them.

Ever since I have made a point to avoid their tables at shows. Never bothered to contact them. Very rarely do show vendors offer any sort of guarantee on their animals and they made no mention of it when I purchased.