F.I.R.E. show Orlando

We just came back from the FIRE show in Orlando. It was a slow weekend but, some vendors did well. Lots of attendee's!!! Good turnout on that part. This could be a great show in the future. Some very disturbing things though..... A vet was in attendance to inspect the animals and make sure imports were properly marked. She did so. However, we were very disappointed in the quality of specimens for sale later.... VERY SKINNY and Dehydrated import Uromastyx's!!! Not just a few. In one tank there was 20-25 specimens.(In an area of about 20"x20") Over half were dead or nearly so. Several skinny adult boas with obvious resp. or IBD's! Several import iguanas that were literally skin and bones! Etc.....Also, we fielded many question on husbandry and sexing. Even showed the customers on care and how to sex each species. We had people come to us saying that the vendor they purchased from said they could keep their crocodile geckos with their beardies and tropical species mixed. we explained what perimiters of temperature and environments each needed. Obviously different.(Not to mention mixing imports and captives) Seems SOME vendors were getting greedy and cared for nothing but, the sale! We had a woman come up and ask about a female ball python she and her 10 year old son had. I was C.B. and about 31/2' A vendor sold her a 3' import male for 20.00 and told her that it was fine to mix them and no quarantine was needed. He also would not guarantee feeding. She went off to try to return it. Unfortunately, we did not see her again. They were very upset they were lied to. If they had come back we were going to give her a C.B. male for free. (No were not saints, it was just sad.)We felt bad since they obviously did not have much money and were very concerned about their current snake.(Nice people!) It's unfortunate because this may make them have a "bad taste" for buying at shows. Who knows if he's given the right info and a good supplier he might be the next Barker or Clark! He might be that company's best customer in the future.!!!This is just one example. There were many. I don't care if it's a 10.00 animal or a 1,000.00 animal. I think everyone should get the same quality time and care. They TRUST US! Sometimes, it may not be the vendors fault...sometimes the customers...But, all these people took the time to ask us... ? I have no problem with imports being sold (Many do quite well), at least the specimens should be in good health and ALL information should be divulged to the customer. Even if it costs a sale. Now do not get me wrong. THERE WERE QUALITY animals available. There were MANY very professional vendors! Great deals on some species! Great show
overall! These issues need to be addressed! Maybe next year these bugs will be worked out. Thanks, Ray Goushaw & Kristina Turk.... Herpetological Breeding Research

Well, I'm surprised no one responded to this yet. I guess we are all content to resign ourselves to the fact that that is just what happens at shows.
I personally find it sad and is part of the reason that I do not like to do many shows. It is a downer to see a bunch of sick and dying animals being sold to eager, ill-informed 10 year olds, and I worry about my guys being exposed to whatever diseases these animals may have.
There are a lot of good shows out there of course, and lots of positive aspects to the big shows too. I just dont know what it is going to take for things to change. Education education education--.....and some ethics amongst sellers????

dana

Dana is so right on the education. If people would learn more upfront and stop buying from these low quality so called breeders, good breeders that really care and take excellent care of their animals would not have to fight the bottom discount dealers. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for.

I did not buy any this time, but I did steer many people to dealers there that had nice animals, it was not hard after pointing out the problems with the cheaper ones and explaining that one Vet visit and treatment could end up costing more than the nice size healthy baby a few tables down.

I think most people if information is explained to them are willing to pay more. One couple that was looking at 2 $30 beardies (about 2-3 wks old), ended up buying a $150 and a $125 one from separate breeders that were 4+ months old, spent another $100 on lights..... and I bet they still saved money in the long run, plus heartbreak. The first breeder had told them they could take them outside for 2-3 hours a week, could live together even if siblings and mate and they would only need a 20 gal tank to live in!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrr I got them away from him when I pointed out a dead baby in the back corner of the tank and he removed it and said, "hey, it happens"

Actually, I find it amazing when you look at the number of views and then see how many posts there are in response!!! What's the deal ? I guess people are scared of stepping on toes? !!!! Well when it comes down to ethics and animal welfare issues I'm not!!! When your wrong... your wrong! It would definately be an issue if someone were selling sick puppies or kittens. !!! Then we'd have everyone screaming! To some people these are the same. I think that every show should allow imports BUT...........,
The buyer should get a flyer when they come in.... it should explain the differences between,....Wild Caught.. untreated, Wild Caught..treated, Captive Born Import, Captive Born Domestic, Captive Born and Bred Domestic!!! This way they can make their own choices and if it rolls the next day they will learn and can only blame themselves! I hope that the animals that were in such bad shape were snuck by the vet and not passed over? I absolutely support EVERY breeder out there. Imports are a neccesary evil for some species. EVERY captive bred species out there came from import stock. It's OUR responsibilty to educate the public and be patient.... Hey, we never know who is walking through the front door; Breeders,Pet shop owners looking for suppliers,or kids that want to be future Herpers. We are there not only to sell animals, but to set an example. Raymond Goushaw & Kristina Turk Herpetological Breeding Research

Oh , by the way thanks for the two previous people who responded!!!! Can you believe that not one vendor had any disinfectant hand sanitizer for sale. We ran out and couldn't find anyone at the show selling any!!!!!?????Out of all the products they were selling?? Raymond Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research

Maybe it's the cynic in me but would the general public actually read the flyers? How many times have you sold an animal to someone to only get an email two days later asking a common question that is contained in paragraph 2 of your caresheet or even a specific point you discussed to them while they were deciding whether to buy?

I hate paying more for things but it seems the shows that charge a little extra for booths tend to weed out the ones selling inexpensive non-acclimated imports (and poorly bred captive raised animals).

Yes, I have to agree on both points. I have seen it time and again that people will simply but the cheapest ones. However, an effort should be made. Thanks Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research

I had three bottles of hand sanitizer. Why didn't you come see me? And why would you post that you "can't believe no one had any for sale," when you didn't even have enough to make it through the weekend???

I had a good show, not great, but it was the first time for this show and the venue is not the easiest to find. Nor is that venue attractive to people because of the parking issue. It is centrally located, but that's about all.

Tony does more to protect his customers than any other promoter I know of. What I think some of you fail to realize is that if the vet tried to actually check every, single animal in the building as throughly as you'd like she'd be there for 10 years. I alone brought over 1000 animals. At 30 sec./animal that's over 5 hours at my booth alone just for the first 1000. Do you really want to wait that long for the show to open? Once at his NC show a team of vets did actually inspect (or at least put an eyeball on) every animal I had, it took 4 of them over an hour to complete the task. They pulled a total of 4 animals, 3 of those were because of bad sheds.

And one other thing, there are all kinds of buyers, as well as sellers. Many people ARE simply looking for the best price available, many others are looking to buy from well known breeders who offer service after the sale. I was selling frilled dragons at the show for $100. To many people the price was enough to get them interested. When they asked they were told the animals had just arrived from CA and had not been treated for anything, they were feeding, and appeared to be in good health. For 5 customers that was enough, they paid for thier dragons and went home happy. For one lady, it was not, she wanted a guarantee on the animal. A guarantee I didn't offer. I didn't try to twist her arm, or talk her in to anything. I simply told no her, "No mamm, I don't offer guarantees on wholesale priced animals, if you want a guaranteed frilled, I recommend Ben Siegel." She went and talked to Ben. NO harm, NO foul.

Brian, in no way shape or form have I or will I condem or blame Tony. He has his hands full and tries his best. Good show. I think I said that? I brought 3 bottles and figured that would be enough. There were quite a few people who were interested in simply handling a specimen. I asked the supply vendors only, since most dealers have just enough for themselves. As to inspecting each animal I agree that it would be absurdly time consuming HOWEVER, these were VERY OBVIOUS! I could have ran by the specimens and still spotted them from 10 feet away! Again, let me point out these were exceptions. Before I contine... Let me say that this is a possibility... not a known fact. These specimens may have not be displayed initially. I not blaming anyone but, I do feel that someone involved with the show should have asked them to be taken off display and not sold. I know they were busy.Also, maybe (I) should have (Politely..) pointed it out but, again(I) was worried about stepping on anyones proverbial"toes"and I know if they had not taken it well it would have been a problem. Even in private. Maybe I come across too strongly sometimes but, it's my passion(or compassion) for all I've seen over the years. I think on the whole we all believe in the same morals and ethics. Some people just chose to sit it out and play it safe when it comes to comments.
These were just a few of those points. Hopefully the comments will not be taken as blame but, just constructive "minor" critics of
the whole. (see I even blame myself sometimes for backing off.)
Thanks Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research

Well,,,I know i should not get involved in this,,but I have to... I too,was a vendor at the F.I.R.E expo,,,and I was thoroughly disappointed with the show... Let me tell you what I heard them say,,not what i was told by someone else;; Now,, Tony makes us label imports,,,and that is fine,,however,,,what IS NOT FINE,,is the fact that the local herp Societies were giving lectures to customers on the problems with imported animals...Basically,,,they were telling them that only a moron would buy imported stuff.. Now remember,,,this is WHAT I HEARD THE HERP SOCIETIES SAY,,not what i was told they said...
As a result of those "lectures",,,our sales were down drastically from our other shows..There were alot of people thru the door,,it just didnt seem to me that they were buying very much.


Now,,,let me say this on the Vet,,,she came around to our table several times throughout both days,,and i have to say that I believe if she saw any crappy animals,,,she would have made that vendor remove it from their table...
You know,,,we pay alot of money for tables at these big shows,,and it's a shame that these "herp societies" were stacking the deck before we even got a chance to see them shuffle the cards.. Its kinda funny;;only the herp societies in Florida do this at Tony's shows... Not in Raliegh,,Not Colombia,S.C.,,Not Atlanta,Ga.,,only Orlando and Tampa...