Triple Combo Morphs Question

I just wonder those Triple Combo Morphs like Emperor Pin it is Butter pastel pinstripe, when it to a normal female, what will we get?

Half normal half Emperor Pin ? Or Butter, pastel, pinstripe and normal? Then how do you get the Emperor Pin

Thanks

If you breed a butter pastel pinstripe male to a female, you will get a mix of all 3 of those genes (some offspring with 1 gene, others with 2 or 3 of them) and possibly some normals. Someone may need to correct me on odds, but I believe your chance of a triple morph baby is 1 in 12, as would be the same chance of a normal....but a triple to a normal, I'm less sure about your odds in getting a normal.

But NO, you will not (unless you are VERY lucky!) get 1/2 the clutch of emperor pins.

I just did a quick 'n' dirty Punnet square, and I get the following combinations, all with a 1/8 (12.5%) probability:

Butter Pastel Pin
Butter Pastel
Butter Pin
Butter
Pastel Pin
Pastel
Pin
Normal

Feel free to correct me if I messed up somewhere!

Originally Posted by R. Eventide

I just did a quick 'n' dirty Punnet square, and I get the following combinations, all with a 1/8 (12.5%) probability:

Butter Pastel Pin
Butter Pastel
Butter Pin
Butter
Pastel Pin
Pastel
Pin
Normal

Feel free to correct me if I messed up somewhere!

Ya gotta love it when they are quick 'n dirty... especially when they come out right, like this one did

I might be looking at it wrong so my writing this is NOT to correct Krystal, but more of a question as I try to wrap my head around the odds part of it (I knew I should've paid more attention in science class!). I know how it works, but I get mixed up (odds-wise) when too many genes are being combined.

If I breed a single co-dom to a normal, odds are 1 in 2 of morph or normal. Therefore, I would think that you've got a 1 in 2 of pastel, pin OR butter; 1 in 4 of combining any 2 of those genes; 1 in 8 of all 3 OR a normal. Is that not right??

It's much more complicated when ya start adding extra genes in there, even if they're all co-dom.

The key problem in your logic, there, is the "or." None of the co-dom genes listed here are allelic, so you have a 1 in 2 chance of getting a Pastel, a 1 in 2 chance of getting a Pin, and a 1 in 2 chance of getting a Butter. So if you look at the list of possibles I put up there, you'll see that we do get 4 out of 8 with the Pastel gene, 4 out of 8 with the Pin gene, and 4 out of 8 with the Butter gene.

For the Punnett square itself, the Pastel Butter Pin (the way I do it, anyway) can look like this:

PpBbNn

Pp = Pastel
Bb = Butter
Nn = Pin

This snake can only pass on one of each pair of genes, so the possible combinations are as follows:

PBN, PBn, PbN, Pbn, pBN, pBn, pbN, pbn

The normal, to keep from getting too confused, would look like this:

ppbbnn (no Butter, Pastel, or Pin genes),

and so passes on only

pbn.

Now, technically, it passes on "pbn" eight times since that's the total possible combinations for three pairs of genes (2 genes * 2 genes * 2 genes = 8), but since they're all the same, we don't really have to worry about the others.

So the square will look like this:

____PBN PBn PbN Pbn pBN pBn pbN pbn___
pbn |

If you fill in the chart, you get the following combinations:

PpBbNn = Pastel Butter Pin (1 out of 8)
PpBbnn = Pastel Butter (1 out of 8)
PpbbNn = Pastel Pin (1 out of 8)
Ppbbnn = Pastel (1 out of 8)
ppBbNn = Butter Pin (1 out of 8)
ppBbnn = Butter (1 out of 8)
ppbbNn = Pin (1 out of 8)
ppbbnn = Normal (1 out of 8)

I hope that helps!

I guess it wouldn't hurt to explain allelic genes, too....

In the above example, PpBbNn, Pp are on the same allele, as are Bb and Nn. Snakes can only pass on one gene from each allele. Since these three genes are all on different alleles, a Pastel Butter Pin can create more Pastel Butter Pins.

This doesn't happen for allelic genes, such as Leucistics and Supers. This is where your "or" comes in.

Supers are pretty easy: A Super Pastel, in the above nomenclature, is PP (a Pastel alone being Pp). If you cross a Super Pastel with a normal (pp), you get all Pp offspring (all Pastels) because the Super Pastel only passes on a P and the normal only passes on a p.

Leucistics are the same way, the difference being that the "super" form of the Leucistic can be made up of two completely different morphs. Let's use Lessers and Mojaves as examples.

Now, normally, I'd write Ll for Lessers and Mm for Mojaves. If I'm only working with non-allelic genes, this is fine. But if I'm crossing a Lesser with a Mojave (or any of the other morphs in the Leucistic complex), that doesn't work anymore! Remember that snakes can only pass on one gene from each allele pair, and since Lessers and Mojaves are on the same allele, a Lesser Mojave (Leucistic) can only pass on either a Lesser gene or a Mojave gene.

In other words, a Lesser Mojave (Leucistic) would be written as LM instead of LlMm. So crossing a Lesser Mojave (LM) with a normal (lm) will give you the following combinatons:

Ll = Lesser
Lm = Lesser
Ml = Mojave
Mm = Mojave,

i.e. half Lessers, half Mojaves.

Okay....now I feel like I should sneak in the bathroom and hotbox a cigarette before a teacher comes by to check....but I'm 41 and gave up smoking YEARS ago!!! J/K...it's not THAT bad. I'll just have a beer!

But seriously, I think (THINK) we said the same thing in your first post (at least what I "meant"). In your second post (Allelic genes), you corrected something that I did NOT know.

I know that a super can not produce another super when bred to a normal, BUT I thought you COULD create a super when using different genes (mojo/lesser) BEL x normal. So that's the same reason that I cannot produce a super stripe by breeding super stripe x normal? Because both genes are on the same rung of the genetics ladder? (This is how it was broken down for someone like me that struggles with scientific charts and.....well, science!)

Hee hee!

I honestly don't know much about Super Stripes. I didn't think Yellowbellies and Spectres were allelic, but after some quick Google searching, it looks like they may be. I'm not sure if they've shown for certain or not, though. (Can't find a whole lot of info on 'em.) If they're allelic, though, then you're right: a Super Stripe would only produce Yellowbellies and Spectres.